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Re: [ISSUE-34] Problem with mandatory attributes for quality

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 16:04:32 +0200
Message-ID: <CAL58czq6--7rZPH=VbbmXroBN9+KPmBhGofA=35uUEarDTu9rg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Arle Lommel <arle.lommel@dfki.de>
Cc: Multilingual Web LT Public List <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
Hi Arle, all,

as Yves has pointed out in a separate mail, inline markup has its limits.
But is there a need to have "multiple quality records" inline? No matter
how you represent the multiple records, you won't be able to apply the CSS
styling to it anymore, or any other dom based processing in the browser.

So I would propose to leave the inline proposal as is, with Yves'
suggestions at
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Aug/0107.html
and leave further discussions to the standoff / reference scenario. The
main point is that we align the metadata available inline and offline, but
having the multiple quality records just offline sounds reasonable to me.

(Btw., a conversion to NIF might be another solution to the offline
scenario, but I won't go to far here ...)

Best,

Felix

2012/8/7 Arle Lommel <arle.lommel@dfki.de>

> Going further, I am not sure what it would mean, however, if a
> locQualityScore value were declared inside the context of another one.
> Under out normal precedence rules it would be as if the "outer" one did not
> exist, but it could be that someone it expressing partial scores (e.g., the
> overall score is 85, but this <div> has a score of 98 and that <div> is a
> 42. In this case it is *not * like translate where the meaning is clear:
> a translate="yes" bit nested in a translate="no" bit completely overrides
> the translation="no" intent. But here the semantics are not so clear. Maybe
> it would solve it to state that the attribute does NOT apply to daughter
> elements. It's clear that semantically it *does*, but syntactically, we
> cannot see this as normal inheritance if the value from the whole cannot be
> seen as applying to the parts
>
>
> And I see I contradicted myself. First I said that locQualityScore doesn't
> make sense going down to daughter elements, which is true in general, but
> at the same time it isn't true that if I have some structure like this:
>
> <div id="1" its-loc-quality-score="80">
> <div id="2" its-loc-quality-score="60">Some bad <span id="A"
> its-loc-quality-type="misspelling"
> its-loc-quality-code="ABC:SPELLING">kontint</span></div>
> <div id="3" its-loc-quality-score="100">Some good content</div>
> </div>
>
> that there is no relation between the daughters and the parent.
>
> Rather, there is a contributory (i.e., bottom-up) relationship at work
> here, not one of normal inheritance: the 80 applies to the whole, not to
> the constituent parts. The values for divs 2 and 3 *contribute *to the
> value of div 1.
>
> And going down further, the same applies, the value of 60 applies only to
> the div as a whole, not to any part of it. If anything "Some bad" would
> have a score of 100 and "kontint" might have a value of 0.
>
> On the other hand, it is not as if the value associated with divs 2 and 3
> completely replace the value of div 1. If they did there would be no text
> to which the value from div 1 applies, which clearly is not the case: it
> applies to all of the text in div 1, taken as an intact whole.
>
> The more I look at the score, the tougher it gets to unify with the other
> span-ish (as opposed to Spanish) attributes used to identify specific
> errors.
>
> LocQualityProfile is maybe a bit easier to unify with them, but what I'd
> really like to see is something like this:
>
> <html lang="en">
>    <head>
>       <meta charset="utf-8" />
>       <meta its-loc-quality-profile="XYZ:xyz.com/fake" />
>       <meta its-loc-quality-profile="PQR:pqr.com/alsofake" />
>       <title>Some junk in a document</title>
>    </head>
>    <body>
>       <p class="segment" id="s0001"><span
>           its-loc-quality-type="inconsistent-entities"
>           its-loc-quality-code="XYZ:wrong_name">Christian Bale</span>
>       (<span its-loc-quality-type="numbers"
>           its-loc-quality-code="PQR:numbers_do_not_match"
>           its-loc-quality-comment="Should be 1867">2067</span>1934)
> conceived of an
>       instrument that could transmit its sound from a power plant for
> hundreds of miles
>       to listeners over telegraph wiring.</p>
>    </body>
> </html>
>
> Here the two quality profiles exist side by side and the prefix in
> loc-quality-code selects which one applies to which piece of content.
>
> So the question is if we can do this using the ITS inheritance model and
> scoping model or not. If we cannot than we run into having to redeclare the
> profile for each and every place we want to use the category.
>
> -Arle
>



-- 
Felix Sasaki
DFKI / W3C Fellow
Received on Tuesday, 7 August 2012 14:05:05 UTC

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