Re: call 10 July? (Re: Comments on section 6.2 of ITS 2.0)

No problem.

Cheers,
Pablo.

On Jul 7, 2013, at 9:58 AM, Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org> wrote:

> Hi all, that is esp. people in the "to" field of this mail,
> 
> could you join the MLW-LT call Wednesday 10 July, 2 p.m. CEST? Of course others are encouraged to join too.
> 
> For whose who haven't followed this thread: Daniel Glazman, implementing ITS 2.0 in BlueGriffon
> http://www.bluegriffon.org/
> is arguing for requiring ITS 2.0 "rules" inside (X)HTML "script" to appear in CDATA sections or XML comments. Various people in this thread (including me) pushed back. The discussion very likely will continue on mail, but the call might help to resolve the issue. And we need to resolve it: otherwise we cannot finalize ITS 2.0.
> 
> At Daniel, wrt to your question "for XHTML rules can appear everywhere, not just inside script?": this is due to the situation that most of the tools processing
> XHTML with ITS handle it just as one XML flavor. This has the benefit that you can write general ITS processors, not taking any specifics of a markup vocabulary into account.
> 
> To support this approach, we have created a dedicated  ITS "rules" file already for ITS 1.0
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/#relating-its-plus-xhtml
> 
> The situation is now that the current approach (requiring ITS rules inside (X)HTML "script")) achieves backwards compatibility with ITS 1.0: an ITS 1.0 processor can convert e.g. XHTML using rules inside "script" to XLIFF and back. At the same time it allows for polyglot validation, as Jirka mentioned. If we now introduce CDATA or XML comments, the ITS 1.0 processors and rules files like
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-xml-i18n-bp-20080213/#relating-its-plus-xhtml
> will be broken.
> 
> So to me this sound like the choice between breaking exisiting tools and content (by introducing CDATA / XML comments), or putting a burden on HTML tool implementers (by keeping things as is). My high preference is the latter; I understand that performance will be an issue with inline global rules. But making web developers aware of this and strongly encourage them to use linked global rules can help.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Felix
> 
> Am 05.07.13 17:58, schrieb Jirka Kosek:
>> On 5.7.2013 17:08, Daniel Glazman wrote:
>> 
>>> If we implement what I recommend with a CDATA section for XHTML docs,
>>> getting the ITS rules from any script element is ALWAYS a matter of two
>>> lines WHATEVER the flavor of HTML:
>> Whole point of recommending to use its-* attributes in XHTML is in order
>> to get consistent results if you process page with either HTML or XML
>> parser as users use wrong media type usually. Of course this will no
>> longer be true with XML fragment inside <script> as it is not parsed in
>> HTML but it gets parsed with XML parser.
>> 
>> If you will introduce CDATA sections inside <script> then you break
>> possibility of parsing content with HTML parser as HTML doesn't
>> recognize CDATA sections. So while solving one problem, you have
>> introduced another one -- resulting syntax is no more "polyglot compatible".
>> 
>> I really don't see elegant solution which will satisfy all constraints
>> here. We have to live with messy HTML parsing rules and sub-optimal HTML
>> and XML compatibility.
>> 
>> What about adding following into the spec:
>> 
>> "If HTML or XHTML document contains script element with
>> type=application/its+xml and such element does not contain any child
>> elements then ITS markup must be extracted from this node by applying
>> XML parsing on a content of the script element."
>> 
>> Would that resolve your objection? It will be pretty clear what to do,
>> and you can even use CDATA sections in XHTML if you think that makes sense.
>> 
>> Your code will then be just little more complex -- it will test for
>> presence of subelement -- if there will be some then all children of
>> <script> element will be treated as fragment of ITS otherwise you will
>> have first call parser on the text content of <script> node to get
>> fragment of ITS markup.
>> 
>> 				Jirka
>> 
> 

__________________________________
Pablo Nieto Caride
Dpto. T�cnico/I+D+i/Localization Engineer
Linguaserve Internacionalizaci�n de Servicios, S.A.
Tel.: +34 91 761 64 60 ext. 0422
Fax: +34 91 542 89 28
E-mail: pablo.nieto@linguaserve.com
www.linguaserve.com
 
�En cumplimiento con lo previsto con los art�culos 21 y 22 de la Ley 34/2002, de 11 de julio, de Servicios de la Sociedad de Informaci�n y Comercio Electr�nico, le informamos que procederemos al archivo y tratamiento de sus datos exclusivamente con fines de promoci�n de los productos y servicios ofrecidos por LINGUASERVE INTERNACIONALIZACI�N DE SERVICIOS, S.A. En caso de que Vdes. no deseen que procedamos al archivo y tratamiento de los datos proporcionados, o no deseen recibir comunicaciones comerciales sobre los productos y servicios ofrecidos, comun�quenoslo aclients@linguaserve.com, y su petici�n ser� inmediatamente cumplida.�
 
"According to the provisions set forth in articles 21 and 22 of Law 34/2002 of July 11 regarding Information Society and eCommerce Services, we will store and use your personal data with the sole purpose of marketing the products and services offered by LINGUASERVE INTERNACIONALIZACI�N DE SERVICIOS, S.A. If you do not wish your personal data to be stored and handled, or you do not wish to receive further information regarding products and services offered by our company, please e-mail us to clients@linguaserve.com. Your request will be processed immediately.�
__________________________________