MATF Minutes 2 February 2017 from Kim Patch on 2017-02-02 (public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org from February 2017)

From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2017 12:13:16 -0500
To: "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Message-ID: <589368AC.9020400@redstartsystems.com>

*MATF Minutes 2 February 2017 link: *
**https://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
*
Text of minutes:
*

Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

02 Feb 2017

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-irc>

Attendees

Present
patrick_h_lauke, Kathy, Kim, Jatin
Regrets
Henny, Chris, Jonathan, David
Chair
Kathleen_Wahlbin
Scribe
Kim

Contents

* Topics <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
1. 2.3 <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
2. 2.4 <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
3. 3.1 <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
4. 3.2 <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item04>
5. 3.3 <https://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item05>
* Summary of Action Items
<https://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
* Summary of Resolutions
<https://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

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<kathy>
http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#wcag-guideline-2.3-seizures-do-not-design-content-in-a-way-that-is-known-to-cause-seizures.x

<kathy> regrets henny

<kathy> regrets chris

<kathy> regrets David

2.3

Kathy: I do think there's anything special we need to do under 2.3 for
mobile

Patrick: agreed – no extra needs

2.4

Kathy: we don't need to talk about getting into the new mobile stuff
here. 24.1 bypass blocks – anything

Patrick: nothing beyond desktop – navigate by landmarks. Skip links –
we've hit problem with bootstrap where chrome gets confused about what
you want to do. I filed a bug with Apple – Safari has some bizarre
behavior with skip links. Technically there are some problems but in
principle skip links from desktop should work on mobile as well

Kathy: I agree
... we had one under multiple ways – include shortcuts to jump. I'm
surprised that's not in there already as a technique because it's not
just mobile

Patrick: I'm not sure it needs to be called out – it would apply to
users on the desktop

Kathy: I think we need to remove M 12
... 2.4.6 headings and labels – mobile relying on labels

http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#wcag-guideline-2.3-seizures-do-not-design-content-in-a-way-that-is-known-to-cause-seizures.x

Patrick: even though there's nothing here at the moment – Kathy's point
about placeholder – that that shouldn't be used – I would be for writing
a technique or flagging it in a note – something along those lines
... I know some work is being done or at least discussions around this
topic in the HTML working group. I think it includes some form of note
the placeholder should be replied upon as the only label being used
... I'm happy to take that one to explore possibility of including
something in WCAG about the use of placeholder is the only way of
labeling– applies not just to mobile what to desktop as well.

<scribe> *ACTION:* Patrick to explore possibility of including
technique/note about the use of placeholder as the only way of labeling
2.4.6 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Explore possibility of including
technique/note about the use of placeholder as the only way of labeling
2.4.6 [on Patrick Lauke - due 2017-02-09].

Patrick: 2.4.7. Touch focus isn't as important as keyboard but provides
positive reinforcement. There are techniques to make sure that, say
links that are clicked do show an actual outline or some kind of focus
state as they are being activated. In principle it would be good to have
that. I can provide some material for it

<patrick_h_lauke>
https://gauntface.com/blog/2013/12/09/focusing-on-the-web-today

Patrick: some kind of note just because just because it's a touch
device, doesn't mean focus is not important. Visible focus styling is
also important ontouch devices or devices that don't use a traditional
keyboard – that could go into understanding – focus visible

<scribe> *ACTION:* Patrick to at least contribute to M001 under 2.4.7
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - At least contribute to m001 under 2.4.7
[on Patrick Lauke - due 2017-02-09].

Patrick: 2.4.8 not sure how this is different than what you would do on
a desktop
... nothing specific is coming to mind – just another way of doing
navigation for small screen but it doesn't sound like it's specifically
a technique that we want to show as a way of providing this
... M015 – not thinking of a technique specific to mobile
... 2.4.9 – nothing

3.1

Patrick: 3.1.1- 3.1.6 can't think of anything that's not already covered
... nothing mobile specific that we need to add

3.2

Patrick: 3.2.1 is less of a problem on touch, or applies the same way on
touch – just because it's a touch device would still want to avoid
triggering things on focus. May want to add a note, but maybe not, don't
want to scatter notes in understanding

Kim: issue with focus is if the input isn't touch, focus may act
differently because touch automatically focuses (similar to the mouse on
the PC). This is especially apparent with speech input. The question is
whether it's different in mobile/touch, or there something specific for
mobile/touch – an extra warning. But I agree that we don't want to
scatter notes all over the place

Jatin: do we need ontouch

Patrick: just looking at what's currently here – what we can put in
existing SC's
... 3.2.3 doesn't talk about hamburger menu type expand/collapse but
beyond that the principal is already there so potentially it could be
written as another technique, but I wouldn't push for it

<patrick_h_lauke> https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20161007/G61

Patrick: there's no code, just in prose. The only sufficient technique
for current 3.2.3. We essentially want to say roughly the same thing
just hamburger menu make sure things are in the same order – I don't
think it needs a new technique just to say that this also applies when
it's collapsed in a single icon like a hamburger menu
... so I'd say leave the mobile navigation bar one aside and lost
somebody has a burning desire to write something
... conceptually it's the same as desktop– of what were trying to say
here is inside what comes up when you trigger it, the order is the same
that you should already be thinking about that in desktop so would
probably feel weird if we single it out as an example – something like a
mobile smallscreen collapsed navigation. so I would be in favor of
dropping this technique

Jatin: agree, recommend dropping navigation bar example

Patrick: orientation order – may not always be the case that for a small
screen device for instance you may choose one way of navigating the site
which is very different from what you would do on a larger screen desktop
... so I'm not sure system navigation is a success criteria in the
moment applies. I think the important thing is as you stay within your
screen size it stays consistent, but between those as well probably goes
beyond what the SC itself is requiring. Part of that technique would be
covered in the change of orientation, how things change when you go from
portrait to landscape. I don't...
... think the current spirit of 3.2.3 covers across devices as well

<patrick_h_lauke> i.e. it needs to be consistent WITHIN one particular
size, but not consistent even when switching between different sizes

Kim: so it goes too far for the FC, or it's not necessary in general

Patrick: not necessary at this point
... the way I read it it says they should remain consistent and I don't
think that's the case that 3.2.3 applies because what you go past a
certain breakpoint it would be a different case – the consistency part
can't go across versions. That's just a natural thing that won't happen.
So proposing that technique implies something that I don't think it does

3.3

agree that 3.3.1 nothing extra in mobile

Patrick: 3.3.2, agree with M005, not sure about M021
... M
... M005 would also be good to discuss what kind of instructions we have
in mind – text, how to word it or orderly dialogue – verbiage point of
view or here's how you can provide, tap, bring up descriptions. Seems to
be the latter.

Summary of Action Items

*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Patrick to at least contribute to M001 under 2.4.7
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* Patrick to explore possibility of including
technique/note about the use of placeholder as the only way of labeling
2.4.6 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2017/02/02-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2017/02/02 17:04:29 $

__________________________________________________

Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com <mailto:kim@redstartsystems.com>

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly

www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________

Received on Thursday, 2 February 2017 17:13:49 UTC