- From: Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
- Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2016 15:25:51 +0000
- To: "public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org" <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <DM5PR03MB2780C9B21C36F2439473B8CD9BBE0@DM5PR03MB2780.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Ø Should we delete H65... I think we tried a while back and almost did but it got delayed... ?
I would say h65 is not sufficient for SC 3.3.2.
Jonathan
From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 8:25 PM
To: Jonathan Avila
Cc: public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org; Gregg Vanderheiden RTF
Subject: Re: M11 Speech Input
Should we delete H65... I think we tried a while back and almost did but it got delayed... ?
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On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 8:23 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
Notes are normative although some have said they aren't... So, I agree "presented to all users" in the note does show the intent that there is an identifying feature about the interactive component that can be perceived for all users, and presumably that would be a visual indication for those without AT. Theoretically, there may be ways to "present" the component "to the user" without either an icon or a text label, but that's getting pretty spacey and speculative.
Luckily, I can't remember coming across any examples of this ...
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David MacDonald
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On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 7:52 PM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:
David, from a SC 3.3.2 perspective the definition of label is below with the addition of the note that you omitted.
label
text<http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#textdef> or other component with a text alternative<http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#text-altdef> that is presented to a user to identify a component within Web content<http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#contentdef>
Note 1: A label is presented to all users whereas the name<http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#namedef> may be hidden and only exposed by assistive technology. In many (but not all) cases the name and the label are the same.
Note 2: The term label is not limited to the label element in HTML.
Jonathan
Jonathan Avila
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From: David MacDonald [mailto:david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>]
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 6:05 PM
To: Jonathan Avila
Cc: public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org<mailto:public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>; Gregg Vanderheiden RTF
Subject: Re: M11 Speech Input
I'm not sure I agree... I want to... The definition of a label doesn't say it has to be visible, and we have the example with a title attribute in F65 and example 2 has a three part phone number ... and two of the inputs don't have visible labels to correspond to the title...
label
text<http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#textdef> or other component with a text alternative<http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#text-altdef> that is presented to a user to identify a component within Web content<http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#contentdef>
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Tel: 613.235.4902<tel:613.235.4902>
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On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Jonathan Avila <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com<mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:
> I don't think we have a requirement now for a visible label. I wish we did...
SC 3.3.2 requires a visual label but not require it to be text. It could be an icon.
Jon
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 15, 2016, at 4:17 PM, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca<mailto:david100@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
I don't think we have a requirement now for a visible label. I wish we did...
For instance we allow the "title" attribute on inputs to serve as the label... (which I've never been in favour of)
https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H65.html
Cheers,
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On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Gregg Vanderheiden RTF <gregg@raisingthefloor.org<mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>> wrote:
Isn’t that already covered by the SC requiring the label to be “programatically determinable”.
1.3.1 requires all information presented visually to be PD (and the label is presented visually).
the intent of 1.3.1 was that any information not already PD because of 1.1.1 - be PD.
gregg
On Nov 15, 2016, at 5:29 AM, Kathy Wahlbin <kathy@interactiveaccessibility.com<mailto:kathy@interactiveaccessibility.com>> wrote:
Hi Greg –
We will be discussing this on the call on Thursday but other than keyboard access (which is already covered under 2.1.1), a user cannot directly access a control using speech directly is when the name of a control does not include the visual name (e.g. a button is visually labeled as continue but in the code is it submit). This can be controlled in the content and would be a technique of this proposed SC.
Kathy
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From: Gregg Vanderheiden RTF [mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 12:47 AM
To: Kathy Wahlbin <kathyw@ia11y.com<mailto:kathyw@ia11y.com>>
Cc: public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org<mailto:public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Subject: Re: M11 Speech Input
agree with removal of keyboard — it takes the focus away from the real goal of the SC and it redundant with 2.1.1
question:
• are you talking about speech input to the content? or to the device?
• If you are talking about speech input to the device — I don’t see how the content could possibly do this. The content would have no idea that anyone was using speech input to the mobile device. such and SC would mean that content could never play music or talk to the user - because both could interfere with speech input.
• Not interfering with speech input is something the DEVICE needs to do. for example — when you select to speak into the device - the device can mute the output from the content. But the content itself has no idea when this is happening.
What do you propose as as success criteria (that content can do) to meet this requirement (other than never making andy sound or speech output itself) ?
Gregg C Vanderheiden
greggvan@umd.edu<mailto:greggvan@umd.edu>
On Nov 14, 2016, at 10:57 PM, Kathy Wahlbin <kathyw@ia11y.com<mailto:kathyw@ia11y.com>> wrote:
Hi –
In looking over the proposed SCs, I think we need to update the text of the SC for Speech Input. Keyboard access is already required under 2.1.1 so we do not need to require it here.
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_Speech_Input
Current SC Text:
All functionality of the content (including touch and gesture) is operable through the keyboard, and does not obstruct a user’s ability to access the keyboard commands through speech input.
Recommended Update to SC Text:
All functionality of the content does not obstruct a user’s ability to access the commands through speech input.
Thoughts?
Kathy
CEO & Founder
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gregg
Received on Wednesday, 16 November 2016 15:26:29 UTC