- From: Jeanne Spellman <jspellman@spellmanconsulting.com>
- Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 12:37:57 -0400
- To: MATF <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
HTML Minutes: https://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
Action Items:
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: David to create definitions for 2.5.3
[NEW] ACTION: David to make a proposal to the wiki and send to
the list to address the concerns about assistive technology in
2.5.3
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to follow up with EricE about integrating
a mobile view into the QuickRef.
Text of Minutes (for archive)
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
31 Mar 2016
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-irc
Attendees
Present
Kathy, jon_avila, Alan, Chris, David, Detlev, Jeanne,
Kim, Marc
Regrets
Alastair
Chair
Kathy
Scribe
jeanne
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]CSUN recap
2. [5]Updates on Mobile Extension
3. [6]Mobile touch & pointer timeline
* [7]Summary of Action Items
* [8]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
CSUN recap
<scribe> scribe: jeanne
+1 CSUN
Kathy: Mobile was a topic discussed over and over in a number
of contexts.
... There were sessions on Android on Android N
<scribe> ... new screenreader for Kindle called VoiceView
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: I talked with MS about Narrator on mobile and
Windows platform.
... W3C session that Jeanne & I did on our work
... A WCAG Next session that talked about the Extensions and
WCAG 2.1 or WCAG 3, and what could happen in the future
... then there were other sessions, such as AutoComplete and
how to get that to work
... Jatin did a session on testing mobile accessibility
... VoiceView seems to be a lot better than Talkback. It allows
navigation by heading and landmarks
... it allows voice on setup, so a person with disabilities can
set up their own phone.
Jon: I went to session on Touchscreen accessibility. They were
doing research on touch screens and accessibility, like touch
size.
... Dwell time - how long someone holds the touch
... Size is important
... space between touch targets is less important when buttons
are large.
... Position of controls is important. Things at top of screen
are hard to touch. Things at bottom are better. Things on the
sides are dependent on what hand the user is using.
... people have a problem of touching off the screen
... people push off the screen can push off the screen.
David: Did any of the users have dexterity problems?
Jon: they all did. They worked on a drafting table on a
gripping device so the device did mot move.
... I will send a link to the session and got the business
cards of the presenters.
+1 Jon
<jon_avila> Touchscreen user interface design for persons with
dexterity impairments
<jon_avila>
[9]http://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/2016/sessions/index.php/p
ublic/presentations/view/296
[9]
http://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/2016/sessions/index.php/public/presentations/view/296
<jon_avila> Custom action in Android
[10]https://www.novoda.com/blog/alternative-interfaces/
[10] https://www.novoda.com/blog/alternative-interfaces/
Jeanne: Verbosity of applications is an issue. Balancing the
needs of instructions to a first time user, vs. the repetition
for experienced users.
Kathy: T hat was part of the autocomplete session.
... also the instructions are not always relevant to mobile,
like a "down arrow key". People worked around it with long
descriptions
Jon: Android now has local options similar to the iOS rotor
control. It isn't available on the web.
... in the proposed 508 refresh, that is a part of the
proposal, but we don't have that on the web.
<chriscm> Hey everyone, I can't find the web meeting link...
<Kathy>
[11]https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m53b1b60a6036509754cc2
7dae8b39a88
[11]
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m53b1b60a6036509754cc27dae8b39a88
<Kathy> Meeting number: 646 316 248
Jon: I think we should add this as a Technique about minimizing
information. It's related to combining links and icons, or
maybe it would map with 4.1.2
David: There wasn't a lot of chat on the mobile side of things.
It was rather quiet in the mobile twitterverse.
<jon_avila> FWIW the Accessibility Scanner only works on
Android 6
David: there was discussion from the Viking and Lumberjack
about how long WCAG is.
... EOWG is discussing how to address the perception that WCAG
is so long.
<chriscm> meeting password?
David: There was a somewhat offhand suggestion that we talk
with EOWG about creating Techniques.
Updates on Mobile Extension
Kathy: There was a discussion of getting the work that is
already done in the Mobile Extension to the WCAG WG.
... Our work on the next month will be addressing finalizing
work so we can send it to WCAG to get it published.
... the date that WCAG WG will review it will be April 12.
... the Low Vision Task Force has mapped user needs and
identified the gaps of where things are mapped to WCAG and
where the gaps are.
... WCAG will be looking at all those things
... there is another group working on the future directions,
such as WCAG 2.1 or WCAG 3.0
... I kept talking about that mobile user needs also apply to
desktop. Low vision was saying that some low vision needs also
apply to mobile.
... there is a new WCAG Quick Ref. We could get a mobile view
into the Quick Ref guide based on the work we did last year.
... the conversation is happening now and your ideas and
opinions are welcome.
... watch the WCAG mailing list.
... we will get this information published. We need to get
focused on finishing up the details so we can get it published.
David: I did an exercise where I pulled out all the info on
possible success criteria
... where is that document now?
Jeanne: I will find it for you after I finish scribing.
Kathy: Kim did a lot of work reorganizing the wiki, it should
be there.
Jeanne: If not, I will find it and send it around.
Kathy: I had a conversation with Judy. The Appendix of the Note
listed all the techniques that were applicable to mobile. That
was a view of the existing techniques. The idea is that
information can go into the QuickRef.
... the information is there, and we don't want to lose it. \
<scribe> ACTION: Jeanne to follow up with EricE about
integrating a mobile view into the QuickRef. [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n01]
[12] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Follow up with erice about
integrating a mobile view into the quickref. [on Jeanne F
Spellman - due 2016-04-07].
Kathy: We don't want to wait until we figure out how things
will be published.
... what we want to reference is the Appendix which lists the
existing Techniques that apply to mobile.
... everything is focused right now to see how we can get this
information published and available.
... we want to get this in front of the WCAG WG and get their
feedback
... then we can put in significant effort to get all the
Techniques done.
... there is enough information now so that people will have
some context to review it in. We just need to finalize it.
Mobile touch & pointer timeline
Kathy: For next week, please look at your action items
... please get things in so that by next weeks call, we can
review the final language.
... it doesn't need to be perfect, but we want it to be
essentially complete.
David: Before CSUN, I spent a couple hours redoing the success
criteria proposal. Is it done?
Kathy: it is in Github.
<David_>
[13]https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_revi
sion_of_2.5.3#Proposed_2.5.3
[13]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_revision_of_2.5.3#Proposed_2.5.3
<Alan_Smith> Joining late
Kathy: is it final?
[14]https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#touch-and-poin
ter
[14] https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#touch-and-pointer
[15]https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#tap-press-revo
cable
[15] https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#tap-press-revocable
David: Remove the "or" in bullet #3.
Jon: How can you focus something with the touch screen? It may
be confusing to some people.
Kathy: The focus gesture happens when you are using the screen
reader.
David: That was why we used the word "selection"
... Focus is mostly associated with gestures
Jon: I think people may be confused about touchend. It is in
the Understanding.
<David_> Jon: 2.5.3 doen't include drag and drop... might ask ,
how can you focus with touch screen. people might not
understand the distinction focus and touch... but think its ok
if Understanding is clear.
Jon: confirmation might be too strong. Could we say feedback?
Jeanne: Should we add feedback? Confirmation might be required
in critical applications, like deleting your checking account,
but feedback would be more appropriate in less critical
applications.
... a feedback example would be opening a dropdown or expanding
where the action would get feedback
David: do we need to define activation?
... what we want is feedback for something they would regret.
No one regrets a dropdown
Jon: If you got to a new screen, that would be feedback. Maybe
feedback would be too broad.
Marc: the confirmation stands for some of the things we were
discussing, like deleting an account would be confirmation. The
dropdown would be reversable.
David: Gregg made the point that if a person has a shakey hand
and it is the action is not activated by touchDown, they would
have a problem with that.
Jon: If I did TouchUp, would that then be Reversible?
David: It would be separate.
... when you touchUp it would be separate, that touchDown would
be selection and touchUP would be activation.
Chris: DIdn't we want to separate it even more, like in Android
phone dialer.
... if the action that is reversing is an irreversible action,
then the system is broken.
... try it on the Android device and see how the behavior
actually works.
David: using a doubletap to activate it would be going too far.
Chris: Let's make the right decision, not the popular decision.
Kathy: Can we start putting definitions together?
<scribe> ACTION: David to create definitions for 2.5.3
[recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n02]
[16] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Create definitions for 2.5.3 [on
David MacDonald - due 2016-04-07].
Kathy: Please send it to the list in advance so people can
discuss it.
<Alan_Smith> I find many functions on Android that are
activated by touch down only even without a release or a slide
away. It is only on touch down and focus.
Jon: I am using the phone dialer on Android, and if I slide my
finger away then the key doesn't fire on touchup.
Chris: I have watched people struggle with that -- people with
dexterity issues.
Jon: that would make the whole SC invalid.
David: People with repetitive strain injuries would hate us if
we forced people to go to double-tap.
Chris: Maybe we need verbage that says that in addition to
touch, they also should require switch use.
David: We already have that in keyboard accessibility in WCAG.
Detlev: It would be easier to understand this success criteria
if we separate out the AT use and the non-AT use.
... even in the SC, it is a specific thing, that didn't
originally address screen reader users.
... it is a different situation when the Screen reader is
turned on.
Chris: That makes more sense
Jon: That was my intent originally. The screenreader use should
be covered on 3.2.1 On Focus
<Alan_Smith> thanks need to drop. will check emails for next
steps for next meeting.
Jon: I think we should make two separate success criteria. Add
language "without assistive technology"
... AT changes the touch interface, so it behaves differently.
We need to be specific.
Detlev: I know it is not easy to read, but we need to be
specific
David: Maybe we need to make up a term
... "assistive technology that remaps" is a phrase we have used
in the past.
<scribe> ACTION: David to make a proposal to the wiki and send
to the list to address the concerns about assistive technology
in 2.5.3 [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n03]
[17] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Make a proposal to the wiki and
send to the list to address the concerns about assistive
technology in 2.5.3 [on David MacDonald - due 2016-04-07].
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: David to create definitions for 2.5.3 [recorded
in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n02]
[NEW] ACTION: David to make a proposal to the wiki and send to
the list to address the concerns about assistive technology in
2.5.3 [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n03]
[NEW] ACTION: Jeanne to follow up with EricE about integrating
a mobile view into the QuickRef. [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#actio
n01]
[18] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02
[19] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action03
[20] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 31 March 2016 16:38:31 UTC