MATF Minutes 16 June 2016

*MATF Minutes 16 June 2016 link: 
*https://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html

*Text of minutes:*


  Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference


    16 Jun 2016

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-mobile-a11y-irc>


    Attendees

Present
    chriscm, Kathy, patrick_h_lauke, shadi, Kiim, Kim, marcjohlic,
    Detlev, Jatin, Jeanne
Regrets
    Henny, David, Aistair, Alistair
Chair
    SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
    Detlev


    Contents

  * Topics <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
  * Summary of Action Items
    <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
  * Summary of Resolutions
    <https://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

<scribe> scribe: Detlev

<patrick_h_lauke> (notes that we have a high percentage of german 
speakers taking over today ;) )

Kathy: Shadi has taken over as staff contact, replacing Jeanne

<patrick_h_lauke> i have a hard stop just before the hour btw

Kathy: Jeanne still around though

Shadi: ...introducing himself - Vienna , focus on EOWG, picking up work 
in MATF

Alan: just changed jobs, works in England / Canada

<patrick_h_lauke> (now remembering first time i met shadi in madrid in 
2004 https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2004/02/exchange.html) 
<https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2004/02/exchange.html%29>

Chris: native mobile SW expert, automated tools and accessibility

<Alan_Smith> Alan: I sorry, I work in the USA but had assisted clients 
in UK and Canada as well

Detlev: testing devices and apps fro a11y

Jatin: also working in a11y (sorry did not fully understand)

Marc: long involvenment in WCAG WG

Patrick; working at paciello group, focus on (mobile) web, focussing on 
pointer events group

Kathy: people still adding comments to survey
... survey closing today

<Kim> 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Discussion:_Touch_and_Force_Touch

Kathy: resuming a discussion about touch / force touch - capabilities, 
a11y challenges

Patrick: starting point pressure info (touch, force touch), widened 
discussion to tilt (pencil) - wondered if we need a differentiation in 
device manipulation incl. shacing, step sensores etc. - coming to the 
conclusion that all this falls under the categroy of additional input 
capabilities
... could be technically sensors or switches or other means of 
activation - maybe we dont differentiate these (as it keeps growing) but 
treat them as one
... switches may be mapped to the generalised concept of keyboard 
access, which might include sequential access via swiping on touch screens
... core is making sure things are accessible sequentially

everything else may come under "additional input capabilities" 
(including touch) with a focus that all these should also be available 
via another mechanism to get to same result

scribe: so there aren't functions that are exclusively available via 
specific input mechanisms

Kathy: need to look hoe all this can go into different SCs

Alan: likes what patrick suggested

Marc: still trying to sdigest what patrick suggested - likes to keep 
things simple - separating out can lea dto endless splitting

Kathy: Not clear what all this should be called / labeled - good aspect 
is that new things come up all the time

Patrick: additional input capabilities implies a baseline

Marc: Could it be non-keyboard input? It needs to be understandable to 
the public

Chris: Likes idea to define things by calling it "not-this"

Patrick: Cautions that 'keyboard' is already a difficult term since some 
input types such as tocu swipes may be mapped to keyboard
... non-pointer input might work
... in pointer events spec pointer inputs are defined - note that 
keyboard and keyboard like input is not covered

Kim: comment on non-pointer input - stylus and tilt may sit uneasily 
with pointer

<patrick_h_lauke> agree with kim, there's a...lack of actual accepted terms

Kim: tocu and extended touch (force, tilting etc. - not easy to handle

Patrick: we are lacking good vocab in this emerging area
... get away form vendor-specific terms
... basic pointer just the basic x,y coords

<patrick_h_lauke> *ACTION:* patrick to try and come up with some 
non-pointer/pointer/fancy touch definition [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-53 - Try and come up with some 
non-pointer/pointer/fancy touch definition [on Patrick Lauke - due 
2016-06-23].

<patrick_h_lauke> (sorry stole your thunder detlev)

<patrick_h_lauke> related: mentioned the note about keyboard in pointer 
events - see https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#intro

Kathy: Go back to device manipulation draft and ajust it

<patrick_h_lauke> (which is already in the level 1 spec 
https://www.w3.org/TR/pointerevents/#intro

<Kim> 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Guideline_2.6:_Make_it_easier_to_use_the_physical_features_of_the_phone.

Kathy: Take a couple of mins to read

<Kathy> 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Guideline_2.6:_Make_it_easier_to_use_the_physical_features_of_the_phone.

<patrick_h_lauke> 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Guideline_2.6:_Make_it_easier_to_use_the_physical_features_of_the_phone.#Proposed_Guideline_2.6

Patrick: 3 categories: (1) keyboard / sequential access, (2) basic 
pointer stylus mouse, (3) additional capabilities ("fancy" mouse)

<patrick_h_lauke> there may be a need to define a "cascade" - use 3), 
but make sure it works with 2), but for 2), also make sure it works for 1)

Patrick: so there needs to be a fallback cascade where 3 is available in 
2, and 2 is available via 1
... the essence is there but we need to find clear expressions

Kathy: we need to make sure not to miss important points / use cases

<patrick_h_lauke> *ACTION:* patrick to take first stab at generalising 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Guideline_2.6:_Make_it_easier_to_use_the_physical_features_of_the_phone.#Proposed_Guideline_2.6 
in light of his proposal [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-54 - Take first stab at generalising 
https://www.w3.org/wai/gl/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/guideline_2.6:_make_it_easier_to_use_the_physical_features_of_the_phone.#proposed_guideline_2.6 
in light of his proposal [on Patrick Lauke - due 2016-06-23].

Kathy: Patrick will incorporate comments, revise

<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/2016-0509/results

Kathy: Members of WCA GWG have given feedback to touch & pointer (in survey)
... some editorial
... Question was if focus on touch workable with AT should be extended
... will put together survey to get feedback from those not on the call
... Lets talk about 2.5.4

<Kathy> https://patrickhlauke.github.io/getting-touchy-presentation/#134

<patrick_h_lauke> 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2016Jun/0021.html

Patrick: question re. 2.5.4 with two separate sizes for activation area, 
one for touch one for (mouse) pointer

--Alastair questioned whether this can be told apart by UA

scribe: there are mechanisms to detect whetehr user is using touch or 
fine pointer as input - this might come late until input happens - 
wouldnot want to change the interface on the fly
... but there are w<ay for users to select what interface they want - 
default may be touch-friendly with switch to optimise for fine pointer
... including automatic detection and prompt
... other situations are a known scenario (POS systems) or situations 
where its known that no touch input is feasible

Kathy: For questions in survey we need to formulate responses

<jeanne> +1 to 2 sizes.

Kathy: anyone disagrees with having these two toch sizes?

Alan: generally agrees - observations reg. lower case x for closing 
dialogs - big enough?

Patrick: authors can ensure active area is large enough or site is 
appropriate, ar wrap checkboxes in labels that are large enough or build 
fake ones
... many browsers do better these days but we need to call upon UA 
makers to get their act together

Kathy: Next week's call will look at update of device manipulation, 
check holiday absences


    Summary of Action Items

*[NEW]* *ACTION:* patrick to take first stab at generalising 
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Guideline_2.6:_Make_it_easier_to_use_the_physical_features_of_the_phone.#Proposed_Guideline_2.6 
in light of his proposal [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
*[NEW]* *ACTION:* patrick to try and come up with some 
non-pointer/pointer/fancy touch definition [recorded in 
http://www.w3.org/2016/06/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]


    Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl 
<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> 
version 1.144 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
$Date: 2016/06/16 16:36:37 $




------------------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________
Kimberly Patch
President
Redstart Systems
(617) 325-3966
kim@redstartsystems.com <mailto:kim@redstartsystems.com>

www.redstartsystems.com <http://www.redstartsystems.com>
- making speech fly


www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
___________________________________________________