Re: Jonathan's concern: Zoom in responsive drops content

Good comments Alastair

some responses to questions

1)  Jason - yes I am assuming that this would apply not apply to pinch zooming.    And if I understand Alastair correctly - he is saying that same.  This relates to what i’ll call page zooming or enlarging rather than what I will call screen zooming.

2) Alastair — yes we do use some terms like essential and “undermine the purpose”  in WCAG.   And each time we struggled for a long time trying to find something more objective —sometime succeeding and sometimes failing.     My call was to do the same here — and strive to define as best we can exactly what makes it ‘essential’ or whatever if we can.    On a number of SC we understood the problem and the solution much better when we were able to figure out what the problem was - and exactly how to define it or the exception.    So you are on track.  Just pushing to see if we can get to it better.     (oh and yes - we always have trouble when something isnt measured in physical measures that an instrument can make…    So we strive for instrument testable SC.  But we all know that only goes so far — so yes - sometimes we have to keep some bathwater around to avoid throwing the baby out with it. 

3) Alastair — yes a big problem is that we ONLY have pinch-zoom (Screen zoom) on mobile.    we should define what the other should look like and send it in to accessibility@apple.com   and to other mobile browser mfgrs      Got an idea for a gesture for that?    (keyboard is usually   CTR+  or CMD+ )   

4)  I like your three SIZINGS

> 1.      Text sizing, where ONLY the text size increases (unless the developer uses particular CSS to size other things according to the user’s text size). This is the old/traditional form that has somewhat fallen out of favour compared to the next one, although still available in some UAs if you know where to look (desktop & mobile).
> 2.      Pixel sizing, where (on a desktop browser) you ZOOM and everything gets bigger. If there are media queries in the CSS they are used and the content is reflowed (Desktop only).
> 3.      Layout sizing, where you either pinch zoom or magnify in order to make one part of the layout bigger on screen, at the cost of not seeing other areas (mobile with pinch zoom or with a magnifier on desktop).


are these standard or you take? 

have to think a bit about these but they look better than the three I tossed out of the top of my head  (from 30,000 feet) (was on airplane) 


thanks 


gregg

> On Jul 5, 2016, at 11:44 AM, Alastair Campbell <acampbell@nomensa.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Gregg,
>  
> Cutting down to the remaining questions:
>  
>> Perhaps:
>> SC X.X.X If text is resized up to 300% without assistive technology, the layout of the Web page ensures that it can be viewed in its entirety without scrolling the viewport horizontally, and without loss of content or functionality except for elements of the page where the spatial layout of the content is essential to its use.
>  
> why 300 %
> I picked 300% due to the next point, but it is obviously up for discussion.
> Oh, I also thought of another example: TV listings. A large set can be a cross between a data-table and a map!
> 
> ‘essential to its use’  (essential in who’s opinion?) 
> Have we not had wording like this before? Something like “would undermine the purpose of the content”.
>  
> Doing a (lazy!) search in WCAG “essential” is defined as “if removed, would fundamentally change the information or functionality of the content, and information and functionality cannot be achieved in another way that would conform”.
> Used in 1.4.5: “Essential: A particular presentation of text is essential to the information being conveyed.”
> (and 2.2.1).
> That seems reasonable to me, or have there been problems with that?
>  
>>  
>> Jonathan wrote on the topic of zoom level vs resolution:
>> …
> Gregg:
> Oh  — one other thing - “when zoomed”  
> users often use PINCH ZOOM  and DO NOT WANT it to do anything more than an image zoom.
>  
> AC: I agree that sometimes people want to pinch zoom, BUT, I think it is a problem that there is not a way of zooming with re-flow on mobile. It’s a UA issue primarily as there isn’t a mechanism on the dev side to deal with it [1].
> Has that been covered elsewhere?
>  
> Gregg:
> I think there was a post about different types of zoom  (I don’t find it quickly but something like (or better than) the following
> ·         character zoom n  (enlarging fonts —  and images usually) (with reflow) 
> ·         virtual page width change  (zoom but keep visual page width the same- which means virtual page width changes) 
> ·         pinch zoom  (zoom it but don’t change it) 
>  
> 
> AC: I would characterize differently, there are three types of zoom in practice, I’m partly inventing names to help differentiate:
>  
> 1.      Text sizing, where ONLY the text size increases (unless the developer uses particular CSS to size other things according to the user’s text size). This is the old/traditional form that has somewhat fallen out of favour compared to the next one, although still available in some UAs if you know where to look (desktop & mobile).
> 2.      Pixel sizing, where (on a desktop browser) you ZOOM and everything gets bigger. If there are media queries in the CSS they are used and the content is reflowed (Desktop only).
> 3.      Layout sizing, where you either pinch zoom or magnify in order to make one part of the layout bigger on screen, at the cost of not seeing other areas (mobile with pinch zoom or with a magnifier on desktop).
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> -Alastair
>  
> 3] https://alastairc.ac/2015/10/zoom-for-fixed-and-responsive-sites/ <https://alastairc.ac/2015/10/zoom-for-fixed-and-responsive-sites/>
>