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RE: Updated ontology doc within Seoul F2F meeting

From: <Bennett.Marks@nokia.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:37:17 +0100
To: <joakim.soderberg@ericsson.com>, <werner.bailer@joanneum.at>, <vmalaise@few.vu.nl>, <wslee@etri.re.kr>
CC: <public-media-annotation@w3.org>
Message-ID: <15443028349C3C44BA819EB51B3B4F3C57264EAE80@NOK-EUMSG-01.mgdnok.nokia.com>
The MWG is dealing with that same question right now. Given the discussion at our last teleconference, I would suspect that the consensus might be to tighten the semantics of location as "Location Created". There are so many edge cases for "Location Shown", such as multiple points of interest, or a fictional location, that it is probably impossible to create an inclusive semantic that is useful. Thus a location such as "Oz", "The Witch's Castle" etc. is probably better put into keywords.

The one case where the semantic is clear is when translating from geo-coordinates into textual representation (such as when going from Exif Destination [GPS coordinates] -> Location Shown). And indeed there are systems that do this automatically. They do represent some level of control over what is found in these properties.

I know this doesn't exactly answer your question, but given the goal of keeping the number of properties down, it's not clear how to best handle this, by bowing to the most common/clearest case, or by adding the extra burden of requiring a qualifier (sub-property).


-----Original Message-----
From: ext Joakim Söderberg [mailto:joakim.soderberg@ericsson.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 5:25 PM
To: Marks Bennett (Nokia-CIC/Boston); werner.bailer@joanneum.at; vmalaise@few.vu.nl; wslee@etri.re.kr
Cc: public-media-annotation@w3.org
Subject: RE: Updated ontology doc within Seoul F2F meeting

We want to keep the number of properties to a minimum.
Can we solve it by having ma:location and adding sub-types for Shown / Created ?


-----Original Message-----
From: public-media-annotation-request@w3.org [mailto:public-media-annotation-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Bennett.Marks@nokia.com
Sent: den 26 februari 2010 18:11
To: werner.bailer@joanneum.at; vmalaise@few.vu.nl; wslee@etri.re.kr
Cc: public-media-annotation@w3.org
Subject: RE: Updated ontology doc within Seoul F2F meeting

In the still image world, the IPTC notion of "LocationCreated" and "LocationShown" is finally becoming ubiquitous. Indeed, even the Exif GPS properties have 2 separate areas for collecting point of creation and subject location (destination). This notion translates fairly well to video. The real issue is the widely variable syntactics assigned to location ( e.g. hierarchical data structures, country codes and controlled vocabularies). This is a result of the desire to provide extra semantic value to the location property, above what comes from treating the location as a keyword.

The MWG has found it extremely useful to clearly separate these two notions of location, and we hope MAWG will also make the semantic difference clear. Furthermore, I would hope that you review the decision to put depicted location into keywords, as there is a loss of semantic value when you do that.

-Bennett Marks  Sr. Architect CDO/CIC NOKIA Chair Metadata Working Group - Video › 5 Wayside Rd., Burlington MA  01803 š bennett.marks@nokia.com È +1 781 308 6556 [mobile]  +1 781 993 1911 [fax]
Skype: bennettmarks  Yahoo:bennettmarks439 GMail:bennettmarks439

-----Original Message-----
From: public-media-annotation-request@w3.org [mailto:public-media-annotation-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of ext Bailer, Werner
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:00 AM
To: Veronique Malaise; 이원석
Cc: public-media-annotation@w3.org
Subject: AW: Updated ontology doc within Seoul F2F meeting

Dear Véronique, all,

I agree that both describing recording and depicted location is useful. We had the discussion at the F2F in Stockholm, and we came up with the proposal to use location for recording location, and would put information about depicted locations into description or keywords (similar to other content related annotation).

Best regards,

Von: Veronique Malaise [vmalaise@few.vu.nl]
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Februar 2010 10:18
An: 이원석
Cc: Bailer, Werner; public-media-annotation@w3.org
Betreff: Re: Updated ontology doc within Seoul F2F meeting

Hi everyone,

Well, one problem with this restricted definition is, for example that all the "spaghetti westerns" (a fistfull of dollars etc directed by Sergio Leone) would have the location "Italy" although the story is supposed to take place in Texas/Mexico. I would be in favor of keeping the extended definition: a resource can be about some place and be shot in another one. It is actually quite common for movies!


On Feb 26, 2010, at 7:35 AM, 이원석 wrote:

Hi. Werner and all,
Thanks for your additional comment.

I agree with your comment. I will use this instead of earlier one ☺

Best regards,

From: Bailer, Werner [mailto:werner.bailer@joanneum.at]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 12:12 AM
To: 이원석; public-media-annotation@w3.org<mailto:public-media-annotation@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Updated ontology doc within Seoul F2F meeting

One more comment: The definition of ma:location is “A location associated with the resource. This property can refer to a depicted location or the location where the resource was captured.” We had changed that to “A location where the resource has been shot/recorded.” at the 4th F2F (see summary table). I prefer the letter, as it is a stricter definition.

Best regards,

From: public-media-annotation-request@w3.org<mailto:public-media-annotation-request@w3.org> [mailto:public-media-annotation-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Mittwoch, 24. Februar 2010 09:36
To: public-media-annotation@w3.org<mailto:public-media-annotation@w3.org>
Subject: Updated ontology doc within Seoul F2F meeting

below is the updated ontology doc within Seoul F2F meeting.
Please review and if you have any comment, let me know.


best regards,

Received on Monday, 15 March 2010 21:46:03 UTC

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