- From: Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:13:09 +0100
- To: Felix Sasaki <felix.sasaki@fh-potsdam.de>
- CC: "public-media-annotation@w3.org" <public-media-annotation@w3.org>
Felix,
I have checked today with Ian from the W3C comm team, and I was told we
can proceed with a publication of our mapping table as is on TR page.
Having such a large table would not raise a publication issue.
It will only need to be included into a draft with proper headings.
Therefore the document you have proposed would definitively satisfy the
publication rules.
http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html
Two issues remain;
The first one was raised by Raphael yesterday during the call. The Group
currently has not agreed to this table, and this is why people were
asking to review/discuss it and agree to it during the next F2F in
april, before its publication. Maybe Raphael and other should voice here.
The second issue is regarding our Charter:
http://www.w3.org/2008/01/media-annotations-wg.html
Which mentions the following deliverables
* A W3C Working Group Note for use cases and requirements for the
Media Ontology
* A W3C Recommendation describing a simple ontology for
representating a set of concepts often associated with media objects.
* A W3C Recommendation for an application programming interface
(API) to access metadata information.
* A W3C Working Group Note for mapping the ontology to existing
standards and solutions.
Isn't that mapping table closer the the last deliverable, W3C Working
Group Note?
Thierry.
Felix Sasaki wrote:
> Sorry for not being on the call. About the discussion "publishing or
> not": first, Joakim said last week
>
> "Joakim: will try to make a more publishable version of the mapping
> table, this could be a good starting point for this ontology design
> guideline"
>
> so I expect that we will have a version soon that can pass the
> publication rules. Second, I had fulfiled an action item to create a
> template for publishing the ontology, see the result at
> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html
> and the link where to put the mapping table at
> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#mapping-table
> have you discussed this boiler template during the call? If not, why?
>
> third, and most important, 17 March I proposed
> "Felix: We should write a mail to the list that we plan to publish the
> table around the 17th of March (or as soon as possible)
> ... and whether people agree."
> and Joakim wrote the mail
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Feb/0082.html
>
> Why did the people who have concerns about the publication not reply to
> this mail? There was only a clarification question from Wonsuk.
>
> I see no new information for delaying the publication of the first draft
> of the ontology later than March 17th. The concerns from Thierry
> "Thierry: it will be difficult to publish this table in the TR space
> because of pubrules"
> will be resolved by Joakim and the boiler template, see above. The
> proposal from Raphapel
> "Raphael: and explain carefully the rationale of each mapping, the type
> of the mapping (equivalent, sub-property, related to, unspecified), the
> transitivity"
> is not new, and we had voted for publishing the table via Joakims
> 0082.html *without* these relations.
>
> So given the fact that we had no disagreement on the publication date
> for more than three weeks, I would like to move ahead and publish as
> soon as Joakim has the content of
> http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-1.0/mediaont-1.0.html#mapping-table
> prepared. As with the requirements & use case document, I am very happy
> to add warnings of issue to be resolved, such as classifing mappings.
>
> If people do not agree with this proposal, I would like to hear an
> alternative publication schedule, including people taking the necessary
> actions with deadlines:
> - explain rationale of each mappings
> - produce a document that contains excerpts of the table and graphical
> representation of the mappings
> - split the table in plenty of tables with always XMP as reference
>
> The above are *potential actions*, I cannot read from the minutes what
> actions the WG really wants to take.
>
> Felix
>
> 2009/3/10 Raphaël Troncy <Raphael.Troncy@cwi.nl
> <mailto:Raphael.Troncy@cwi.nl>>
>
> All,
>
> The minutes of today's telecon is available for review at:
> http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html (and in text
> format below).
> Cheers.
>
> Raphaël
>
> ---------
> [1]W3C
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/
>
> - DRAFT -
>
> Media Annotations Working Group Teleconference
>
> 10 Mar 2009
>
> [2]Agenda
>
> [2]
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0023.html
>
> See also: [3]IRC log
>
> [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-irc
>
> Attendees
>
> Present
> Jean_Pierre, Thierry, Pierre_Antoine, Chris, Raphael,
> Daniel_(irc), Veronique_(irc), wonsuk, (partial)
>
> Regrets
> Tobias, michele
>
> Chair
> Joakim
>
> Scribe
> Thierry, raphael
>
> Contents
>
> * [4]Topics
> 1. [5]Agenda review and approval of previous minutes telecon
> 03 March 2009
> 2. [6]Action Items
> 3. [7]mapping of formats
> 4. [8]toy implementation
> 5. [9]AOB
> * [10]Summary of Action Items
> _________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> <tmichel> Scribe:Thierry
>
> <tmichel> Minutes:
> [11]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html
>
> [11] http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html
>
> <tmichel> hello raphael
>
> trackbot, start teleco
>
> <trackbot> Sorry, raphael, I don't understand 'trackbot, start
> teleco'. Please refer to [12]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
> for help
>
> [12] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
>
> trackbot, start telecon
>
> <trackbot> Date: 10 March 2009
>
> <scribe> Agenda:
> [13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009
> Mar/0023.html
>
> [13]
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0023.html
>
> <daniel> this call starts ?
>
> <tmichel> hope Joakim will join to chair this meeting
>
> <Chris_IBBT> hopefully Joakim did not forget the different starting
> time of the phone conference
>
> <daniel> oh, call information sent from Joakim has the same timezone
> (not applying one-hour earlier). I am now traveling, hence can't
> make a phone call.
>
> <tmichel> It maybe that some people have forgotten about the time
> slot change for this call
>
> <tmichel> Should we proceed ? Do we have a quorum ?
>
> chairs, tema contact: what's happened with this call?
>
> <daniel> presumably, we will start after one-hour with Joamik
> charing. sorry for inconvenience and thanks your patient...
>
> <tmichel> Joakim sent an agenda and was schedulled to Chair. I was
> scheduled to scribe ...
>
> The agenda said: Tuesday, 10 March 13:00-14:00 UTC
>
> <Chris_IBBT> we do it in french?
>
> veronique, the telecon was messy, restart again
>
> <daniel> so sorry...this is a chairs' mistake. if ok, we will be
> able to resume this call after 50 minutes. is that ok for all of you
> ?
>
> daniel, we cannot, since Zakim is not booked!
>
> <daniel> um...ok, Thierry can you be charing this call instead of
> Joakim ?
>
> <tmichel> do we want to cancel
>
> Agenda review and approval of previous minutes telecon 03 March 2009
>
> minutes accepted, no objections
>
> <tmichel> Propose to accept:
> [14]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html as
>
> [14] http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-mediaann-minutes.html
>
> <tmichel> minutes of the last meeting, thanks to Veronique for
> scribing.
>
> <scribe> Scribe: raphael
>
> <pchampin> I can scribe
>
> <scribe> scribenick: raphael
>
> Scribe for next week: Thierry volunteers
>
> Action Items
>
> Felix: ACTION-43: continue
>
> All actions: 47, 54, 80, 82 continue
>
> Pierre Antoine: ACTION-83
>
> scribe: the action is not completed
> ... I thought that the review of the standards will be done in small
> group and thus the action would have been cancelled
>
> close ACTION-83
>
> <trackbot> ACTION-83 Review ID3 closed
>
> The remaining actions: 85, 86, 87 are still pending
>
> mapping of formats
>
> Thierry: how will we going to publish this table in our new
> document?
>
> Raphael: is there any action to actually review this table?
>
> Thierry: no, we will make small group of 2-3 people for reviewing
> part of this table
> ... should we design groups and assign formats to these groups ?
>
> Veronique: I thought we will discuss that during the face to face
> meeting
>
> Raphael: +1 for Veronique's suggestion
>
> Thierry: yes, but we should as well have some material prior to the
> f2f
>
> <daniel> this small group will be made by toy implementation
> volunteers and chairs...so toss it (reviewing the mapping table) to
> chairs this time
>
> Jean Pierre: we need experts of these formats to actually do the
> mapping, I will not dare to say something on formats I don't know
>
> Thierry: should we ask people to attach their name on specific
> format?
>
> Jean Pierre: yes
>
> <pchampin> +1
>
> <Chris_IBBT> +1
>
> Thierry: and then use a first come first serve principle
>
> Jean Pierre: the maker of the mapping for each specific format
> should be in
>
> <veroniqueM> +1
>
> <scribe> ACTION: Thierry to provide the list of all formats
> considered in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping,
> leading each sub-group [recorded in
> [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action01]
>
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-89 - Provide the list of all formats
> considered in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping,
> leading each sub-group [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-03-17].
>
> <scribe> ACTION: ALL to join these sub-groups [recorded in
> [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action02]
>
> <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ALL
>
> Raphael: why do you want to publish this table before the f2f?
>
> Veronique: in order to get comments from a wider community
>
> Thierry: it will be difficult to publish this table in the TR space
> because of pubrules
>
> Raphael: my suggestion would be to produce a document that contains
> excerpts of the table and graphical representation of the mappings
> ... but requires a lot of work, not sure you can make it in 2 weeks
>
> Veronique: graphical representation might be unreadable
>
> Raphael: yes, thus split this table depending on group of properties
>
> Veronique: we want a validation of these mappings from the communiy
> depending on the usage of the properties
>
> Raphael: then you need a lot of text explaining the rational behind
> each mappings
>
> Pierre Antoine: the current table has XMP as a pivot format
>
> scribe: split the table in plenty of tables with always XMP as
> reference
>
> Raphael: problem with that is that you remove a lot of value of the
> global view of the table
>
> Thierry: but assuming we do not publish anything by the f2f, what
> can we expect afterwards
>
> Veronique: the transitivity of the mappings is also in question, we
> need to discuss it during the f2f
>
> <Chris_IBBT> +1 Veronique
>
> +1 veronique
>
> Thierry: what I hear here, is that we should wait for after the f2f
> to go publishing a document
>
> <veroniqueM> +1
>
> +1
>
> Raphael: and explain carefully the rationale of each mapping, the
> type of the mapping (equivalent, sub-property, related to,
> unspecified), the transitivity
>
> Thierry: do we have a quorum for taking a resolution
>
> Raphael: i think we are not enough, can make an informal poll
>
> Chris: we should listen to the arguments of Felix that wanted to
> publish the table asap
>
> Thierry: ok, this is not a formal resolution (no quorum), but I note
> that the people present on the call want to delay the publication of
> the table
>
> Toppic: survey of mapping formats
>
> <tmichel>
> [17]http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42786/Annot-format-survey/results
>
> [17] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42786/Annot-format-survey/results
>
> 12 responders on 26 people!
>
> Thierry: commenting the results received so far, see also
> [18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009
> Mar/0030.html
>
> [18]
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2009Mar/0030.html
>
> Raphael: I would like to raise a serious concern! I see only 12
> responders on 26, among the non-responders, there are active
> participants ! I observe also that Dave Singer (from Apple) has
> raised concern on the poll itself and did not provide answers :-(
>
> Chris: i can ask other IBBT guys to answer as well
>
> Veronique: I have no real preferences
>
> Thierry: I'm a team contact, so I cannot answer
>
> Daniel: why did you do not answer?
>
> Others: seem to not be active participants
>
> <scribe> ACTION: Thierry to re-open the questionnaire and invite
> people to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order
> to get a quorum of responses [recorded in
> [19]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action03]
>
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-90 - Re-open the questionnaire and invite
> people to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order
> to get a quorum of responses [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-03-17].
>
> <scribe> ACTION: Thierry to chase the non-responders [recorded in
> [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action04]
>
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-91 - Chase the non-responders [on Thierry
> Michel - due 2009-03-17].
>
> <daniel> sorry..! I missed the due in flight...
>
> <daniel> Thierry, do we make a decision to reopen for that once
> again ?
>
> toy implementation
>
> Veronique: is there a schema of XMP available or should we construct
> it manually from the spec?
> ... should we consider the VRA mapping in the toy implementation
> given that VRA has low results in the pol
>
> Wonsuk: we can ask the schema to Adobe
>
> Raphael: I think it does *NOT* exist
>
> [21]http://support.adobe.com/devsup/devsup.nsf/docs/51668.htm
>
> [21] http://support.adobe.com/devsup/devsup.nsf/docs/51668.htm
>
> Raphael: we can of course ask confirmation from Adobe, a chair
> action?
> ... from the blog post above, it seems Adobe considers XMP as a
> framework, in which particular subsets are defined, DC, and other
> small schemas, but XMP is extensible too, thus no XMP schema exists
> ... this is how I interpret it
>
> <daniel> I was asking Adobe for some of XMP issues as well as
> Metadata WG, but no clear answer to me until now...
>
> <scribe> ACTION: Joakim to ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's
> contact in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have
> access too [recorded in
> [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action05]
>
> <trackbot> Created ACTION-92 - Ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's
> contact in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have
> access too [on Joakim Söderberg - due 2009-03-17].
>
> AOB
>
> Thierry: next call will be an hour earlier again!!!
>
> Chairs: need to write that in the agenda
>
> <daniel> again, sorry
>
> Summary of Action Items
>
> [NEW] ACTION: ALL to join these sub-groups [recorded in
> [23]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action02]
> [NEW] ACTION: Joakim to ask Larry Masinter or other Adobe's contact
> in order to know if there is an XMP schema we can have access too
> [recorded in
> [24]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action05]
> [NEW] ACTION: Thierry to chase the non-responders [recorded in
> [25]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action04]
> [NEW] ACTION: Thierry to provide the list of all formats considered
> in the mapping table with the person who did the mapping, leading
> each sub-group [recorded in
> [26]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action01]
> [NEW] ACTION: Thierry to re-open the questionnaire and invite people
> to really respond even if they have no preferences, in order to get
> a quorum of responses [recorded in
> [27]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/10-mediaann-minutes.html#action03]
>
> [End of minutes]
>
>
> --
> Raphaël Troncy
> CWI (Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science),
> Science Park 123, 1098 XG Amsterdam, The Netherlands
> e-mail: raphael.troncy@cwi.nl <mailto:raphael.troncy@cwi.nl> &
> raphael.troncy@gmail.com <mailto:raphael.troncy@gmail.com>
> Tel: +31 (0)20 - 592 4093
> Fax: +31 (0)20 - 592 4312
> Web: http://www.cwi.nl/~troncy/ <http://www.cwi.nl/%7Etroncy/>
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 11 March 2009 13:23:33 UTC