- From: Peter Krautzberger <peter.krautzberger@mathjax.org>
- Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 10:16:33 +0200
- To: public-mathonwebpages@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CABqxo82rU2r=S9r7bBnq5wabAYCn4Y8P1O+bKYjJxWyGcs+nGg@mail.gmail.com>
FYI, the note has been cleaned up a bit. Do let me know if you spot any lingering errors or omissions. Best regards, Peter. On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Peter Krautzberger < peter.krautzberger@mathjax.org> wrote: > Thanks, Jeanne for an amazing job as scribe. > > I've sent a cleaned up version to Ivan to make it easier to catch up for > folks who couldn't join the call. > > Thanks everyone for a great first step! I'll be following up with a doodle > and some conversation starters soon. > > Best regards, > Peter. > On Apr 27, 2016 7:10 PM, "Jeanne Spellman" < > jspellman@spellmanconsulting.com> wrote: > >> Link to minutes in HTML: >> >> https://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-mathonwebpages-minutes.html >> >> >> Minutes in text format: >> >> [1]W3C >> >> [1] http://www.w3.org/ >> >> - DRAFT - >> >> Math on the Web CG >> >> 27 Apr 2016 >> >> See also: [2]IRC log >> >> [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-mathonwebpages-irc >> >> Attendees >> >> Present >> Peter, Krautzberger, jeanne_spellman, Ivan, >> Eli_Weger__Pearson, Collin, Emily, Markus, Han, >> jpedersen >> >> Regrets >> Chair >> Peter Krautzberger >> >> Scribe >> jeanne >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> Peter: Welcome. We will start with introductions. Daniel is the >> Co-Chair. This can be changed. >> ... This is the first get-together. >> >> The idea behind the group that is focused on the tools to put >> mathematics on the web. >> >> scribe: from such a group, we could build from the bottom up to >> help build the tools to make it easier. >> ... people who are building the tools need to step up to make >> the tools >> ... it needs standards and developing the web forward >> ... it will be a learning experience for making standards for >> most of the group. >> >> Intros >> >> scribe: who are you >> ... what are you working on, or what is your interest in this >> group? >> ... what do you want to contribute to the group? >> >> <physikerwelt> +1 >> >> <laughinghan> +1 >> >> Peter: Consultant, work with MathJax >> ... interested in exposing more data, and put out more >> information, accessibility >> >> <laughinghan> pkra: we could go in order of IRC >> >> <laughinghan> where we all see the same order >> >> <pkra> jeanne: I'm on the a11y side. >> >> <pkra> ... web a11y engineer >> >> <pkra> ... worked on WCAG task forces >> >> <pkra> ... web content a11y guidelines, >> >> <pkra> ... often heard about problems of ppl with disabilities >> having problems with math on the web >> >> <pkra> ... no specific interest but interested in finding out. >> >> Collin: I am undergrad at UVa, studying math and computer >> science. Not familiar with standardization, but hope to help >> any way I can. >> ... interest and background in vulnerability side. Experience >> with development, but not with mathematics. >> >> Daniel: I work in @@, with a product called @@ Editor. I am the >> CEO. I am interested in putting mathematics in the web using an >> editing tool. I am interested in the interopability with Math >> on the Web and MathML. Interested in level of semantics. >> ... we should consider the level of semantics we want to >> provide. >> ... bottom up, I want a list of examples of how mathematics >> should be put on the web and create use cases. >> ... then address other fields, such as chemistry. >> >> Eli: I work for Pearson in Accessible Assessments group. I am >> looking for solution for braille input online. This is my first >> working group. >> >> <laughinghan> I believe @@ = WIRIS >> >> <laughinghan> [8]http://www.wiris.com/en/editor >> >> [8] http://www.wiris.com/en/editor >> >> Eli: accessible equation editor is our current focus. >> >> Emily: Kahm Academy doing Math rendering. I am one of the >> people who wrote @@@ and the CSS hacks to get things working >> reasonably on the web. I want to make the CSS hacks less hacky. >> I am new to the standards process. >> >> Han: I work on MathQuill which is a free open source math >> editor. I am interested in CSS techniques that others use, >> reducing the hacks in CSS. >> >> <xymostech> jeanne: @@@ = KaTeX >> >> <laughinghan> Volker = KaTeX >> >> Ivan: I am at W3C, I am the Digital Publishing Activity lead. >> Digital Publishing is crying out for an efficient solution for >> mathematics in digital publishing. I have no experience with >> publishing mathematics on the web, but will work to help Peter. >> >> Jason: I lead engineering for a graphing calculator. We are a >> large user of MathQuill. We want to get better font information >> from the browsers. >> ... we are working with MathQuill so it will work better with >> speech to text and braille output. >> ... want to work with others on getting information from DESMOS >> to other applications. >> >> Jean: Independent Freeland Digital publishing expert. I worked >> with MathML and MathJax. I am interested in making math >> accessible on the web, but first we have to get math on the >> web. Scholarly, higher ed, professional. It is across all >> digital publishing. >> >> Jos: Web Developer, new to W3C groups. I work on a math >> library, called MathJS. We tried to group it up with Majex >> editing. It is difficult to get them to interoperate and get >> maths interchangable, like JSON. >> ... I am strong in making things simpler and clearer. >> >> <jos> Majex -> MathJax >> >> <jos> [9]http://mathjs.org/ >> >> [9] http://mathjs.org/ >> >> Markus: I work with DAISY Consortium. I work with IDPF on ePub >> digital publishing standards. There is a crying out for >> solutions in digital publishing. >> ... the publishers require typographical fidelity as on a print >> page of math, but it needs to be accessible to people with >> print disabiltiies and there are no answers. It is a tragedy >> for humanity that we do not have math on the web. >> >> +1 tragedy for humanity >> >> @@: I am a researcher. My interested in math rendering for >> wikipedia. I have been working on a math extention for >> wikipedia. We suffer that MathML is not working on any browser. >> MathML therefore, doesn't work in practice. >> >> scribe: we need better math rendering for websites. Now we can >> only print images which is unacceptable. It should be part of >> the text. >> ... it needs to be transportable to other software. I am >> working on projects with students. One project with MathJax. >> Another is moving to Mathematica. >> >> <laughinghan> Moritz=Moritz >> >> Fergus: Reader at university in the UK with STEM accessibility >> mainly Chemistry. I have been working with MathJax creating an >> accessibility extension. I'm interested in Open Science, with >> getting data onto the web that is interoperable. >> ... I was on the SVG accessibility task force, but had to drop >> off when I didn't have time. >> >> <gjtorikian> bummed I can't be there and have to read these in >> chat ;_; many thanks jeanne for the scribing >> >> John: I work for Wiley for information modeling. We publish >> digitally and in print. Large commercial publisher. Our models >> have always incorporated MathML. I have the same problems that >> others have mentioned in getting math digitally and in print >> from a single source. I have experience in the past as a math >> professor. >> ... have a colleague, Tzviya, who would also agree with these >> comments. >> >> Peter: This is a diverse group, and I am very happy. >> ... Ivan, can you give an overview of Community Groups and how >> they fit into W3C structure? >> >> Ivan: Community Groups do what they want when they want it. >> They are satellite groups around W3C. Good that they have the >> flexibility to do what they want, Bad because their work is not >> considered and official W3C Standard. >> >> <pkra> 244 CGs >> >> Ivan: what I have seen that worked, is Community Group that >> follows a process that produces a Community Group Report. If >> the quality is good enough, then that work becomes the basis of >> W3C standard work. That may not be a goal of this group >> ... The Web Annotations Community Group produced a report that >> became the basis of the Web Annotations Working Group. >> ... this is a group that suffers the most from the status of >> MathML. >> ... it would be a huge success if this group could be the group >> that produces work that could help solve this problem. >> ... accessibility is still a problem, and it would be good if >> this group could help with that. >> ... Community Groups are autonomous, and the group can do what >> it wants. >> ... Working Groups are the only groups that can produce W3C >> standards, aka W3C REcommendations. Interest Groups do not >> produce W3C Recommendations. >> ... the Digital Publishing Interest Group worked with other W3C >> groups to improve the standards as needed by Digital >> Publishing. >> ... for this group, the differentiation between Interest Groups >> and Community Groups is not significant. >> >> Peter: I didn't realize that Community Groups are replacing >> Interest Groups. >> >> Ivan: Many of the Community Groups don't go anywhere. That is >> the way of it. >> >> Peter: Many of the people on this call have been thinking about >> Math since MathML working group was active. The MathML group is >> now closed. >> ... this group is not taking over from MathML. >> >> Ivan: I would expect the work done here to be oblivious to the >> syntax of math on the web. Millions of equations are described >> in MathML. Some people expect their work done in LaTex. We >> should have a way to build tools that take advantage of the >> work that browsers have used to optimize display in HTML and >> CSS. >> ... if some of the features of CSS are insufficient, and this >> group comes up with featueres that HTML, CSS or others should >> add to their specifications, then that is appropriate for this >> group to contribute ideas to those groups. >> ... there is a project in CSS -- Houdini -- that may be of >> interest to those who were interested in the font issue. >> >> Peter: Use q+ to join the queue if you wish to speak. Use q? to >> get a list of who is on the queue. >> ... I wouldn't expect this group to be oblivious to syntax, but >> I would expect this group to follow its interests. >> ... there are no limitations if you want to talk about MathML >> if you want, and LaTex syntax or asciimath syntax. >> ... I see an interest in layout, CSS layout in particular. >> There may be interest in SVG. >> ... There is interest in Houdini Task Force (the sexiest task >> force) between CSS and TAG (the highrollers of the standards >> world). They are looking for use cases from the mathematics >> world. >> ... there is a recent article in Smashing Magazine where they >> describe Houdini project. >> ... we may want to get tangible information to these groups. >> >> <jos> >> [10]https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2016/03/houdini-maybe-the- >> most-exciting-development-in-css-youve-never-heard-of/ >> >> [10] https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2016/03/houdini-maybe-the-most-exciting-development-in-css-youve-never-heard-of/ >> >> Peter: there is also interest in accessibility. There has been >> work on a digital publishing ARIA extension, with digital >> publishing use cases. Some discussion of ARIA use cases to make >> mathmatics more accessible. >> ... This is another area where this group could provide input >> and get traction. >> ... a third area is interoperability. No one will help the math >> community who isn't part of the math community. >> ... last week someone posted to the MathJax mailing list >> looking for a JSON-type for interoperability. Many tools >> produce very different data results based on the input. >> [example] Teacher who writes an equation, the markup changes to >> make it render properly. We could look for low-hanging fruit. >> ... Next meeting. I would like to have a next meeting, and >> quickly. >> >> <Eli_Weger__Pearson> MONTHLY? >> >> <mgylling> +1 >> >> Peter: how frequently should we meet? I would like monthly >> personally. >> >> <Eli_Weger__Pearson> Sorry for the caps >> >> <ivan> monthly is fine >> >> <Jason_Merrill> monthly sounds good >> >> <laughinghan> do we need to meet regularly yet? >> >> monthly sounds good. >> >> @@: To start, every two weeks, then monthly. >> >> @Dani: Otherwise, we will not get anything off the ground. >> >> <laughinghan> I personally vastly prefer IRC > meetings > >> mailing lists >> >> Ivan: We should try to use the email list or Githib to work >> asyncronously. I don't think we should rely on telcos. >> >> Peter: Put ideas and work on the mailing list. If there is >> anything else, please follow up by email. >> >> <laughinghan> what is TPAC? >> >> <Eli_Weger__Pearson> I've got to jump off and join another >> meeting. Bye everyone! >> >> Ivan: We signed up for a short face to face meeting at TPAC, >> but we haven't heard any status. >> >> <pkra> Thanks, Eli. >> >> Ivan: TPAC is a week long meeting where working groups meet >> face to face. It is also a place to have neutral coordinated >> interaction with other groups. It is an intellectually >> stimulating, but exhausting week. This year, the TPAC is 3rd >> week in September in Lisbon. >> ... we may get a spot. >> >> <laughinghan> bye, thanks! >> >> <Jason_Merrill> thanks all >> >> >> [End of minutes] >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >>
Received on Thursday, 28 April 2016 08:17:03 UTC