- From: Neil Soiffer <soiffer@alum.mit.edu>
- Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2020 16:40:41 -0700
- To: public-mathml4@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAESRWkCBWkCdepuYH3tY-9Sfq_jf8K76CCB0AYSM7Buw8RAEUA@mail.gmail.com>

*Several people contributed to the minutes, but there are several gaps. You'll need to listen to the recording to get all the details. The meeting was recorded: https://benetech.zoom.us/rec/share/uPRsLuv17jtOYZX1s3mEfZ4NGb31eaa82iIWrKIEn00fT-Sh1DKryoVfqCshBuo4 <https://benetech.zoom.us/rec/share/uPRsLuv17jtOYZX1s3mEfZ4NGb31eaa82iIWrKIEn00fT-Sh1DKryoVfqCshBuo4> password 4O$A$26cAttendees:Neil SoifferDavid FarmerDeyan GinevSam DooleyLouis MaherDavid CarlisleMurray SargentPatrick IonBruce MillerContinue discussion on semantic proposalsNeil to report on his attempts to use "pure" semantics for speechNS: started with Sam’s notation -- semantic=”binomial”, arg=”1”, arg=”2”NS: easy to deal with -- when writing a rule to consume it, I know the names. Here’s a sample rule:any ? (semantic=="binomial")=> UIWord(@"1",@"2"){ruleRef="RR_binomial"; simple=IsNode($1[0], "Simple") && IsNode($1[1], "Simple");};NS: basically is says for “any” tag that has the attribute semantic=”binomial”, generate a template that grabs the element with attr=”1” and “attr=”2”. No need to figure out their names.NS: if were semantic=”binomial(@upper, @lower)”, the code would still need to refer to the first and second arguments, but now the internal matching code would need to parse the value of ‘semantic’ and then get the first arg, see what it is called, and then get it.NS: problems with Sam notation for \int \frac{dr}{r} SD: could coin a new name ‘intInFrac’DF: Stieltjes integral is d(function). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann%E2%80%93Stieltjes_integral <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann%E2%80%93Stieltjes_integral> Weighted integrals (orthogonal polynomials) are another example, where you have weights like \frac{dr}{\sqrt{1-r^2} . So a good alternative name for those types of integrals is important anyway.[PI: In the example case, we actually have d(log r) = dr / r .]NS: for nary, would like to have the semantic on the operator so I know how to pronounce it more easily.BM: I’m all for simplifying notations as much as possible, but no simpler. What is missing is the thing itself and the thing applied to arguments.BM: gamma^* is some incomplete function, but can be applied.SD: So an semantic=”gamma-star” would be on an mrow or on an msup.BM: It should be on the msupNS: Wouldn’t you have semantic=”function” on the mrow and semantic=”gamma-star” on msup.SD: An alternative is to markup semantic on the mrow.BM: need to distinguish between the function and the function applied to the arguments.[free ranging discussion about operators, functions, naming, etc -- listen to the recording starting about 25]* *NS: work on this doc https://mathml-refresh.github.io/mathml/docs/comparison <https://mathml-refresh.github.io/mathml/docs/comparison>Progress/issues by others on generating semantics or consuming itDG: I did more work validating out work. Overall it works quite well with the DLMF where math is mostly K-12.DG shows an example of of x_i^’ written in different ways. Derivative with implicit variable. Other examples…SD: msupsub is definitely something that needs to be detangledDF: also \bar{x}_i even though the semantics are x_i with a bar over it.PI: Translation is a different matter; I’ve translated books from French and German for Springer and you’ll need enough recorded information in the markup to do a good job. Translating from old MS word is already much more difficult than from LaTeX.Comments on different types of integrals (from David F)Not all integrals are of the form\int f(x) dx .There are (at least) two other classes:1. Stieltjes integralshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann%E2%80%93Stieltjes_integral <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann%E2%80%93Stieltjes_integral>These look like\int f(x) d g(x)If f and g are sufficiently nice then that equals\int f(g) g'(x) dx ,but the Stieltjes integral is defined in more general cases.2. Weighted integralsThe Chebyshev polynomials T_n are orthogonal with respectto the inner product\langle f, g \rangle = \int_{-1}^1 f(x) g(x) \frac{dx}{\sqrt{1-x^2}} .It is common to write that weight as a fraction:\frac{dx}{\sqrt{1-x^2}}Some times the weight looks like part of the integral,but it actually serves a different purpose which may be helpful toindicate. For example, the Hermite polynomials areorthogonal with respect to the inner product\langle f, g \rangle = \int_{-\infty}^\infty f(x) g(x) e^{-x^2} dx .Based on the above examples, it seems we need a way to indicate themeasure in the integral (for those cases where the measure is notjust "d of the variable"), and a way to indicate that part of theintegral is a weight.Moving towards a working groupNS: We need to move towards a working group so that the Core work has normative references. The W3C has virtual meetings (TPAC) in mid October followed by “breakout” sessions at the end of October. We should have a charter ready in early October to get early feedback from various groups before moving to the formal application. The charter among other things lays out work items. We need to start the process of figuring out our deliverables, some time lines, and work requirements for membership in the group. I will schedule a general meeting in the next two weeks to gather bullet items.DC: Next Weekend is TUG2020 some talks on accessibility: https://tug.org/tug2020/ <https://tug.org/tug2020/>* <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Received on Thursday, 16 July 2020 23:41:09 UTC