- From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 12:03:36 -0600
- To: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CA+=z1WkhYPK_c9V_yB7NGeMQfysmDY0KsDyF7bkUkj_apObcwA@mail.gmail.com>
On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:56 AM Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com> > Date: Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:12 AM > Subject: MATF Minutes 10 January 2018 > To: public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org> > Cc: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu> > > > > * MATF Minutes 10 January 2018 link: > https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html> * > > * Text of the minutes: *Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 10 > Jan 2019 Attendees > Present Shawn, Present, Kim, AllanJ, JakeAbma, laura, JonA, JohnR, shadi > Regrets > Chair SV_MEETING_CHAIR Scribe jallan > Contents > > - Topics > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda> > 1. spacing between touch targets > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01> > 2. Portrait - Landscape content > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02> > 3. indication of gestures > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03> > 4. Focus disappearing under sticky element > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item04> > 5. focus Management > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item05> > 6. Custom gestures > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item06> > 7. Low Vision, proximity of related information > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item07> > 8. LV - proximity of related information > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item08> > 9. justification > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item09> > 10. visual affordancee > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item10> > 11. page refresh > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item11> > - Summary of Action Items > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary> > - Summary of Resolutions > <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary> > > ------------------------------ > > + Present > > <AllanJ> scribe: jallan > > <AllanJ> kp: overlaps between LV and mobile, id and note difference so we > make sure everyone is covered. > > <AllanJ> mobile spreadsheet: > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wRAViPfAJ4Ytqc71tGZp6gU07HNd2QQaNgtJsog-D90/edit#gid=124994642 > > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wRAViPfAJ4Ytqc71tGZp6gU07HNd2QQaNgtJsog-D90/edit#gid=0 > > <AllanJ> Low Vision Needs: > http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/user-needs-coverage.html > > <AllanJ> in Mobile reviewing Draft Proposals > spacing between touch targets > > JA 2.2 synergy between user groups – low-vision user stories here as well > > Jim: especially when you're working on smaller screen – zero into get > your finger in the right place > > JA especially if you are holding the device closer your finger gets in the > way more > > <AllanJ> jon: it has synergy. if holding device close finger gets in the > way more > > <AllanJ> jake: relationship between target size. no SC at AA. Patrick > lauk - target is measured from center. the issues is for small targets -- > they need more space. larger targets it is not so much an issue. > > <AllanJ> ... need a target size SC at AA > Portrait - Landscape content > > <AllanJ> jon: turn to landscape to make text bigger. > > <AllanJ> ... more lines on the page. and buttons (all content) get bigger. > indication of gestures > > <AllanJ> jon: swipe from left to open a menu. but no indication. COGA > issue. this is a general accordance issue. > Focus disappearing under sticky element > > <AllanJ> jake: focus visible - when focused element should be visible - > not covered by sticky element > > <AllanJ> jon: half hidden is difficult. should work at different zoom > levels > > <AllanJ> jake: easy to create a technique. > > Jim: general issues with sticky headers – separate from focus which is > more critical > > <AllanJ> jim: low vision has issues sticky elements in general. Focus is > more critical. We have techniques. > > <AllanJ> jon: content that is focused should be visible also. > focus Management > > <AllanJ> jon: focus management is an issue for lowvision. > > <AllanJ> jake: examples... table with 5 columns, zoom in only 3 col > visiable. cell has active element, table changes size and col with ... > > <AllanJ> ... have a global convention. should be in an SC > > <AllanJ> jon: open discussion on github. > > <AllanJ> jon: can an author know when user changes size and breakpoints > to manage the focus. > > <AllanJ> jake: knows situations when focus is lost. > > <AllanJ> jon: if I have focus, I zoom in to look at something, if I move > focus does the screen follow. > > <AllanJ> jake: need some research - when something disappears, the focus > should return to parent element > Custom gestures > > <AllanJ> jon: zoom in iOS is 3finger control. yes there potentially is a > problem. setting in iOS - can change gestures. > > <AllanJ> jim: who manages the conflict the user or app > Low Vision, proximity of related information LV - proximity of related > information > > JA: with mobile if people have to zoom in and a site is not responsive > than any mobile users going to have that > ... problem with that is not in the visible viewport > > Jake: example page when you calculate your mortgage divided 50-50 left > side fill in what you earn > ... when you zoom in if you pan you only see the left side > ... miss relationship – if you zoom in you don't have the opportunity to > compare > > Jim: use case with mobile > > Jake: if it read flows than without the proximity people have a hard time > getting the information clear > justification > > Jim: users can change justification but we know that full justification > is bad – author doesn't have control over whether user can change > justification that's a browser issue > > JA: Might have to have an exception if example legal needs to be full > justified > ... you might have to go all the way to the edge of the screen to read so > this way you don't necessarily have to go all the way to the edge so it > makes more information viewable on the left edge so there's actually more > content viewable on the screen at any time for users in general. But of > course that's assuming that it doesn't reflow. That mitigates that issue > for mobile users > > Jim: so there's a mobile use case > visual affordancee > > Jim: we had two SC's > ... as sites get more minimal trouble knowing where to click > > JA: more of an issue for mobile because you can't use a pointing device > you do have to rely more on affordances > ... I'll use a stylus to put a border around anything that's actionable so > I can find it – or start tabbing on the screen to find out what is > actionable > > Jim: on mobile that's more difficult because you can't use an external > stylesheet on mobile what you touches what it is > ... if some particular on-screen keyboard comes up you say I did find it > > <AllanJ> kim: this in combination with instructions then user doesn't > know where to start > > Kim: third one down in the mobile spreadsheet > page refresh > > Jake: when I read this one a couple of days ago – I have been busy with > this one this week the opposite way around. We have a single page app and > when you click on one of the main menu links > > <AllanJ> related to mobile focus management. > > Jake: we have a menu on the left side – used to be that when you click on > another menu in the main menu the content change but you do not have a page > refresh you do not know that the main content changed > ... you would like the page title to be read to you, the focus to be reset > and normally two options reset it to the H1 of the main content or just put > it back to the body element so you start all over again > ... so I do understand your point but this one, the way it was written is > exactly what you do want where a single page app you want to simulate > multiple pages. Click the link parts of the page refresh and you want the > focus to be set on the body > > JA: depends on the type of user. We struggle with this. One of the things > we've come up with is if the navigation has changed the top refocused back > to the body but if the navigation has been consistent and you are moving to > another page with the same structure keep it – it matters what has changed > > Jake: people expect the same behavior – in our case specifically when you > click on the link you have no idea anything – you just go to another page > > JA: I don't know if that would fall under 4.1.3 – you don't know if the > page has changed > ... on the desktop you have a page title you can check that. On mobile > it's not that visually apparent so you really don't know where you are even > if you end up on the body you don't have context of what's changed on that > page > ... knowing the each one of the title is important to knowing where you > went > > Jake: when new information is added to a page – maintain focus at the > current location. That's exactly what caused the problem in our case > ... we have two cases. In one case you want to maintain the focus. But in > another case you don't want that > ... simulating a page load which tells you you are on a new page > > Jim: when new information is added to a page through content update or > injection maintain the focus at the current location – so I'm thinking of > I'm in a table and I click on a button that says sort this column and > instead of staying right there in my table where I've sorted it jumps me up > to the top of the page and I have to go time my > ... Find my table again > > JA: when some small part of the change has updated and that changes the > point of regard. If you just sort the table and focus goes back to the top > everybody's got to go back to where they were > > Jim: we are focused on the small one – is mobile focused on the larger > one for your focused management? > > Jake: it's about context or non-context change. I'm talking about the > opposite > ... if we can make this one a little bit more smart and clear what we mean > – I agree > > <AllanJ> context change (whole page) - non-context change (portion of > page) > > Jim: we are at the end of the call – I will update both documents > > <laura> Yes. Useful. Thanks. > Summary of Action Items Summary of Resolutions [End of minutes] > ------------------------------ > Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's > scribe.perl > <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version > 1.154 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>) > $Date: 2019/01/10 17:04:49 $ > > -- > ___________________________________________________ > > Kimberly Patch > > www.redstartsystems.com > - making speech fly > > PatchonTech.com <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch> > @PatchonTech > www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch > ___________________________________________________ > > > -- > Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator > Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired > 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756 > voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9452 http://www.tsbvi.edu/ > "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964 > -- Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired 1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756 voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9452 http://www.tsbvi.edu/ "We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 10 January 2019 18:02:36 UTC