- From: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
- Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 11:56:39 -0600
- To: public-low-vision-a11y-tf <public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CA+=z1Wk9yWwCempXfTdWJ=h+RWgyJRZRpq_st=XzngneHrBcOw@mail.gmail.com>
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Kim Patch <kim@redstartsystems.com>
Date: Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:12 AM
Subject: MATF Minutes 10 January 2018
To: public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org <public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
Cc: Jim Allan <jimallan@tsbvi.edu>
* MATF Minutes 10 January 2018 link:
https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html> *
* Text of the minutes: *Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 10
Jan 2019 Attendees
Present Shawn, Present, Kim, AllanJ, JakeAbma, laura, JonA, JohnR, shadi
Regrets
Chair SV_MEETING_CHAIR Scribe jallan
Contents
- Topics <https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
1. spacing between touch targets
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
2. Portrait - Landscape content
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
3. indication of gestures
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
4. Focus disappearing under sticky element
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item04>
5. focus Management
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item05>
6. Custom gestures
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item06>
7. Low Vision, proximity of related information
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item07>
8. LV - proximity of related information
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item08>
9. justification
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item09>
10. visual affordancee
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item10>
11. page refresh
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#item11>
- Summary of Action Items
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
- Summary of Resolutions
<https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>
------------------------------
+ Present
<AllanJ> scribe: jallan
<AllanJ> kp: overlaps between LV and mobile, id and note difference so we
make sure everyone is covered.
<AllanJ> mobile spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wRAViPfAJ4Ytqc71tGZp6gU07HNd2QQaNgtJsog-D90/edit#gid=124994642
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wRAViPfAJ4Ytqc71tGZp6gU07HNd2QQaNgtJsog-D90/edit#gid=0
<AllanJ> Low Vision Needs:
http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/user-needs-coverage.html
<AllanJ> in Mobile reviewing Draft Proposals
spacing between touch targets
JA 2.2 synergy between user groups – low-vision user stories here as well
Jim: especially when you're working on smaller screen – zero into get your
finger in the right place
JA especially if you are holding the device closer your finger gets in the
way more
<AllanJ> jon: it has synergy. if holding device close finger gets in the
way more
<AllanJ> jake: relationship between target size. no SC at AA. Patrick lauk
- target is measured from center. the issues is for small targets -- they
need more space. larger targets it is not so much an issue.
<AllanJ> ... need a target size SC at AA
Portrait - Landscape content
<AllanJ> jon: turn to landscape to make text bigger.
<AllanJ> ... more lines on the page. and buttons (all content) get bigger.
indication of gestures
<AllanJ> jon: swipe from left to open a menu. but no indication. COGA
issue. this is a general accordance issue.
Focus disappearing under sticky element
<AllanJ> jake: focus visible - when focused element should be visible - not
covered by sticky element
<AllanJ> jon: half hidden is difficult. should work at different zoom levels
<AllanJ> jake: easy to create a technique.
Jim: general issues with sticky headers – separate from focus which is more
critical
<AllanJ> jim: low vision has issues sticky elements in general. Focus is
more critical. We have techniques.
<AllanJ> jon: content that is focused should be visible also.
focus Management
<AllanJ> jon: focus management is an issue for lowvision.
<AllanJ> jake: examples... table with 5 columns, zoom in only 3 col
visiable. cell has active element, table changes size and col with ...
<AllanJ> ... have a global convention. should be in an SC
<AllanJ> jon: open discussion on github.
<AllanJ> jon: can an author know when user changes size and breakpoints to
manage the focus.
<AllanJ> jake: knows situations when focus is lost.
<AllanJ> jon: if I have focus, I zoom in to look at something, if I move
focus does the screen follow.
<AllanJ> jake: need some research - when something disappears, the focus
should return to parent element
Custom gestures
<AllanJ> jon: zoom in iOS is 3finger control. yes there potentially is a
problem. setting in iOS - can change gestures.
<AllanJ> jim: who manages the conflict the user or app
Low Vision, proximity of related information LV - proximity of related
information
JA: with mobile if people have to zoom in and a site is not responsive than
any mobile users going to have that
... problem with that is not in the visible viewport
Jake: example page when you calculate your mortgage divided 50-50 left side
fill in what you earn
... when you zoom in if you pan you only see the left side
... miss relationship – if you zoom in you don't have the opportunity to
compare
Jim: use case with mobile
Jake: if it read flows than without the proximity people have a hard time
getting the information clear
justification
Jim: users can change justification but we know that full justification is
bad – author doesn't have control over whether user can change
justification that's a browser issue
JA: Might have to have an exception if example legal needs to be full
justified
... you might have to go all the way to the edge of the screen to read so
this way you don't necessarily have to go all the way to the edge so it
makes more information viewable on the left edge so there's actually more
content viewable on the screen at any time for users in general. But of
course that's assuming that it doesn't reflow. That mitigates that issue
for mobile users
Jim: so there's a mobile use case
visual affordancee
Jim: we had two SC's
... as sites get more minimal trouble knowing where to click
JA: more of an issue for mobile because you can't use a pointing device you
do have to rely more on affordances
... I'll use a stylus to put a border around anything that's actionable so
I can find it – or start tabbing on the screen to find out what is
actionable
Jim: on mobile that's more difficult because you can't use an external
stylesheet on mobile what you touches what it is
... if some particular on-screen keyboard comes up you say I did find it
<AllanJ> kim: this in combination with instructions then user doesn't know
where to start
Kim: third one down in the mobile spreadsheet
page refresh
Jake: when I read this one a couple of days ago – I have been busy with
this one this week the opposite way around. We have a single page app and
when you click on one of the main menu links
<AllanJ> related to mobile focus management.
Jake: we have a menu on the left side – used to be that when you click on
another menu in the main menu the content change but you do not have a page
refresh you do not know that the main content changed
... you would like the page title to be read to you, the focus to be reset
and normally two options reset it to the H1 of the main content or just put
it back to the body element so you start all over again
... so I do understand your point but this one, the way it was written is
exactly what you do want where a single page app you want to simulate
multiple pages. Click the link parts of the page refresh and you want the
focus to be set on the body
JA: depends on the type of user. We struggle with this. One of the things
we've come up with is if the navigation has changed the top refocused back
to the body but if the navigation has been consistent and you are moving to
another page with the same structure keep it – it matters what has changed
Jake: people expect the same behavior – in our case specifically when you
click on the link you have no idea anything – you just go to another page
JA: I don't know if that would fall under 4.1.3 – you don't know if the
page has changed
... on the desktop you have a page title you can check that. On mobile it's
not that visually apparent so you really don't know where you are even if
you end up on the body you don't have context of what's changed on that page
... knowing the each one of the title is important to knowing where you went
Jake: when new information is added to a page – maintain focus at the
current location. That's exactly what caused the problem in our case
... we have two cases. In one case you want to maintain the focus. But in
another case you don't want that
... simulating a page load which tells you you are on a new page
Jim: when new information is added to a page through content update or
injection maintain the focus at the current location – so I'm thinking of
I'm in a table and I click on a button that says sort this column and
instead of staying right there in my table where I've sorted it jumps me up
to the top of the page and I have to go time my
... Find my table again
JA: when some small part of the change has updated and that changes the
point of regard. If you just sort the table and focus goes back to the top
everybody's got to go back to where they were
Jim: we are focused on the small one – is mobile focused on the larger one
for your focused management?
Jake: it's about context or non-context change. I'm talking about the
opposite
... if we can make this one a little bit more smart and clear what we mean
– I agree
<AllanJ> context change (whole page) - non-context change (portion of page)
Jim: we are at the end of the call – I will update both documents
<laura> Yes. Useful. Thanks.
Summary of Action Items Summary of Resolutions [End of minutes]
------------------------------
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's
scribe.perl <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
version 1.154 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
$Date: 2019/01/10 17:04:49 $
--
___________________________________________________
Kimberly Patch
www.redstartsystems.com
- making speech fly
PatchonTech.com <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch>
@PatchonTech
www.linkedin.com/in/kimpatch
___________________________________________________
--
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315 fax: 512.206.9452 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964
Received on Thursday, 10 January 2019 17:55:42 UTC