Minutes: Low Vision Task Force 27 July 2017

source: https://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-lvtf-minutes.html
- DRAFT - Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 27 Jul 2017

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-lvtf-irc>
Attendees
Present Erich, Jim, JohnRochford, Laura, Shawn, steverep Regrets glenda,
scott Chair SV_MEETING_CHAIR Scribe Jim, shawn
Contents

   - Topics <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-lvtf-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)
      <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-lvtf-minutes.html#item01>
      2. Printing https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76
      <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-lvtf-minutes.html#item02>
   - Summary of Action Items
   <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-lvtf-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
   - Summary of Resolutions
   <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-lvtf-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

------------------------------

<allanj>
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2017Jul/0093.html

<allanj> brb

<laura> Scribe List:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Scribe_List

<allanj> scribe: Jim
Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)

<allanj>
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2017Jul/0093.html

<allanj> sr: seems to meet all use cases

<allanj> lc: it covers more than the origanal

<shawn> scribe: shawn

ja: can live with either one

sr: agree

<laura> +1

lc: agree

<erich> +1

<allanj> *Popup Interference:* Except where popup presentation is
controlled by the

<allanj> user agent, all of the following are true when popup content is
visible:

<allanj> · *Trigger*: Popup content does not obscure any part of its

<allanj> triggering content.

<allanj> · *Hover:* If a popup is triggered via pointer hover, then the

<allanj> pointer may be moved onto the popup content without loss of
visibility.

<allanj> · *Focus:* Popup content remains visible while any of its
components,

<allanj> including the trigger, have focus.

<allanj> Where we define popup as " becomes visible only on pointer hover
or focus”.

<allanj> +1

<JohnRochford> +1

<laura> +1

<erich> +1

<steverep> +1

*RESOLUTION: Accept Popup Interference above*

ja: ready to go to AG

lc: maybe issue with @@

sr: put in what was trying to cover the original use cases

ja: comment out the other stuff. I'll update the other wiki info
... html will work to comment out

sr will try to take care of GitHub

ja: will get to AG for this coming survey & telecon

Friday survey

<allanj> close item 1

<allanj> close item 1
Printing https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/76

<allanj> Resized:

<allanj> Content can be resized up to 200% without loss of content or
functionality;

<allanj> Changes Reflected:

<allanj> User changes to letter spacing, line spacing, font family, and
color are reflected in the printed content.

ja: pushback on 200% because not all browsers do it, printing sale
different from zoom content
... testing with font size 2em in CSS and worked well
... change to: if user changes font size to up to 2em, it will print OK
... author has control if works with author's print style sheet
... (also true on display)

slh: want to include all the other things in adapting text, e.g., line
height

ja: already there

slh: ah right
... use similar wording from adapting text?

sr: what damages printing?

slh: example of print CSS set text box size

<allanj> ja: not being able to add to 100, truncated text

slh: increased text size not fit

ja: author css not adding to 100 and get truncated text
... padding, margins, etc adds up to 112
... printing cuts off content
... fixed box positions - some fixed and some not
... end up with overlapping text not readable
... up to 2ems - not scale/zoom
... example only printed some of the content
... want to print recipes, etc. for offline
... examples here:

<allanj>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Printing_Customized_Text#Examples

ja: one example truncated 'cause body width was 640px

lc: link examples in GitHub issue

ja: many things that author can do to break -- or make work -- the printing

<erich> need to drop, folks, but feel free to delegate relevant actions for
this SC to me, as I believe I'm still listed SC mgr... Have a good week!

<allanj> User changes to font-size, letter spacing, line spacing, font
family, and color are reflected don't result in loss of content when printed

<allanj> User changes to font-size up to 2em, letter spacing, line spacing,
font family, and color are reflected don't result in loss of content when
printed

slh: up to 2em
... overlapping covered by lose of content?

ja: yeah

<allanj> User changes to font-size up to 2em, letter spacing, line spacing,
font family, and color are reflected in the printed version and don't
result in loss of content.

<JohnRochford> How about "User changes to font-size (up to 2em), letter
spacing, line spacing, font family, and color are reflected in the printed
version, and don't result in loss of content."

<allanj> slh: if the user can't change it then its irrelevant

slh: if users can't change it, then it's irrelevant

jr: talking about user CSS?

ja: yes

slh: looks good to me

lc: push back on "user changes"

@@: drop the word user?

<JohnRochford> How about, "Changes to font-size (up to 2em), letter
spacing, line spacing, font family, and color are reflected in the printed
version, and don't result in loss of content."

slh: defers to y'all who have been working more closely with AG!

lc: better, then they'll ask about amount

slh: use #s from adapting text?

lc: can for spacing, not have family or color

ja: can do all in user CSS, some in browser

<allanj> sr: concerns about mobile printing, ability to change font
characteristics, etc. can't change font stuff in mobile yet

lc: leave as is and see what they say?

slh: might as well add #s for spacing

<allanj> User changes to font-size up to 2em, letter spacing up to .12
font-size, line spacing up to 1.5 font size, font family, and color are
reflected in the printed version and don't result in loss of content.

<allanj> User changes to font-size (up to 2em), letter spacing (up to .12
font-size), line spacing (up to 1.5 font size), font family, and color are
reflected in the printed version and don't result in loss of content.

<allanj> Changes to font-size (up to 2em), letter spacing (up to .12
font-size), line spacing (up to 1.5 font size), font family, and color are
reflected in the printed version and don't result in loss of content.

lc: concerned it will open up adapting text SC

<JohnRochford> Changes to font-size (up to 2em), letter spacing (up to .12
font-size), line spacing (up to 1.5 font size), font family, and color are
reflected in the printed version and do not result in loss of content.

<JohnRochford> I have to go. The last version I published gets rid of the
contraction.

sr: don't want to leave anything out, yet share laura's concern

<JohnRochford> ciao

ar: adding more than adapting text and adding it has to print

sr: if pass adaptingtext, what can author do to block it?

slh: screw up print CSS

sr: css and javascript print events

<allanj> laura's concern - reopening adapting text

slh: asked earlier if can just add to adapting text -- but that opens up
same issue

ja: to new draft, add comments about adapting text and printing

<allanj> slh: fine with not opening adapting text. put printing as a
separate SC. then combine after august deadline

slh: maybe try for separate SCs for now. and then maybe they'll get
combined later

lc: yes

ja: yes

sr: yes

<allanj> sr: acknowledge up front that this is the strategy

<allanj> slh: leave out font family and color.

slh: font family got taken out 'cause too hard to test and covered by
spacing. so take out of here, too?

sr: one way to state it. another reason - adapting text about user making
changes, and how users can mess that up. notihgn stopping user from making
front family change, only that would break the content change is the
sizing, and that is sufficiently covered by spacing.
... with this one... example: make bunch of style changes, author writes
on-print event that redoes the styles, then will override

slh: then author messed it up

sr: should be used when authors change layout for better print view

ja: for not when print CSS

sr: print CSS better way, but some use javascript

slh: fine to do things like not print ads, byt still need to not have lose
of content from user changes

<allanj> perhaps add printing to the exiting Editor's note in Adapting text
-- The Working Group seeks to include overriding text color, background
color, font-family, and priniting as part of this SC, but is not yet able
to identify a way to do so that is sufficiently testable.

slh: prefer to get clear SC accedpted now - then later munge if want
... if can get an SC accepted now, it's stronger than Editors note

ja: keep it simple for now

<allanj> ja: keep it simple. just print without loss of content

<laura> +1

<allanj> ... leave out all other modifications (font-size, family, spacing,
color,)

slh: hummmm

ja: gets foot in door

slh: i guess OK in big picture of all the tangential issues :)
... as steve says, communicate that approach is to get the basics
requiremetn in now w/o opeing worms, and after August look at it in big
picture and *may* be combined (w.g., with adapting text)

ja: without loss of content means they can't have print that srips out ads,
nav, etc. we don't want that!

slh: .... loss of intended included content :(

lc: essential content

<allanj> Users can print essential content without loss of content

<allanj> slh: totally fine for authors to choose what is and is not
printed. what they intend to print is not messed up

<allanj> lc: content can be printed without loss of essential information

<laura> If content can printed, it has no loss of essential information.

<allanj> +1

Content that is printed hs not loss of information

<allanj> slh: content that is printed has no loss of essential information

Content that is printed has no loss of information

slh: ?

<allanj> slh: essential information can be printed with no loss of content

slh: don't want out clause that cant print essential info at all

<allanj> define "no loss of content" in description - truncated or
overlapping text

<allanj> lc: +1

+1

<allanj> sr: +1

*RESOLUTION: send to AG: "essential information can be printed with no loss
of content"*

ja: will edit GitHUb

<allanj> jim to edit github and update description

and let erich know next steps

slh: thanks, all!

<allanj> slh: we have open issues on requirements.... lower priority than
SCs. slh can't get to until after TPAC anyway

<allanj> ja: we also have tasks for updated understanding docs.

<allanj> AG wants understanding docs ready for Last Call

<allanj> lc: working on testing adapting text

<laura> Starting to work on Adapting Text Testing:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LRsAtLReBL6LnbvJQ4biQ1ER1fKbh8MDWnHqbsW7B1o

<allanj> lc: looking for pdf docs to test

<allanj> pdf testing is 2nd tab on spreadsheet.

<laura> bye

<allanj> trackbot, end meeting
Summary of Action Items Summary of Resolutions

   1. Accept Popup Interference above
   <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-lvtf-minutes.html#resolution01>
   2. send to AG: "essential information can be printed with no loss of
   content" <https://www.w3.org/2017/07/27-lvtf-minutes.html#resolution02>

[End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9452 http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964