Minutes: Low Vision Task Force 15 Sept 2016

Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15 Sep 2016

See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-lvtf-irc>
Attendees
Presentallanj, Wayne, Laura, Shawn, Scott, JohnRochford, ErichM, Glenda
RegretsChairJimScribejohnr, wayne
Contents

   - Topics <https://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-lvtf-minutes.html#agenda>
      1. Contrast: Informational Graphics
      <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_%28Minimum%29>
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-lvtf-minutes.html#item01>
      2. Contrast: Interactive Element
      <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_%28Minimum%29>
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-lvtf-minutes.html#item02>
      3. Seeing All Interface Elements
      <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Seeing_All_Interface_Elements>
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-lvtf-minutes.html#item03>
      4. Text Size
      <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Text_Size>
      <https://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-lvtf-minutes.html#item04>
   - Summary of Action Items
   <https://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-lvtf-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
   - Summary of Resolutions
   <https://www.w3.org/2016/09/15-lvtf-minutes.html#ResolutionSummary>

------------------------------

<allanj> finished SC get posted to WCAG
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/

<allanj> scribe: johnr
Contrast: Informational Graphics <
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_%28Minimum%29
>

<shawn> scribenick: JohnRochford

Jim: Laura suggests "legend or a key" for the related technique

<laura>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_(Minimum)#New_Techniques

<laura> Welcome Glenda!

Glenda The Good Witch has joined the task force

<allanj> WCAG TPAC meeting information -
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2016

<ScottM> Welcome Glenda!

Glenda: JF just approved me

<allanj>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_%28Minimum%29

Jim: The contrast ratio of some gifs is insufficient to distinquish tex

text

Jim and Laura: 2.1 focus indicator is in another SC

<allanj> updated -
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Tracking_Success_Criteria_Progress
Contrast: Interactive Element <
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_%28Minimum%29>

Laura: To 1.4.3, we are adding "interactive images, form field borders, and
focus indicators"

Glenda: Did we consider 3:1?

Wayne: Yes, but we decided upon 4.5:1

John: It was I who asked if we needed to vote on a resolution.
Seeing All Interface Elements <
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Seeing_All_Interface_Elements
>

Glenda: I suggest we place "active" before "user interface controls".

<allanj> you can make things hidden

<allanj> inactive = greyed out

Scott:

<allanj> glenda: they are hard to see, but if we increase the contrast,
then it looks active and creates a usability problem

Scott: I don't like that an active control is greyed out when it is
inactive. It's hard to see.

<shawn> [ ideal situation is disabled indicated by other than color alone
... although that not smooth in some cases ]

<AWK_> +AWK

<allanj> gs: even at 3:1 contrast looks like it is active. conundrum

<shawn> [ agree issue that inactive with high contrast makes it hard to
distinguish active & inactive ]

<ScottM> If high contrast mode is used all color vanishes

<allanj> gs: need some good techniques

Shawn: The ideal situation is that active or inactive is indicated by
something other than color alone.

<AWK_> Can a user style sheet key off of the inactive=true attribute
setting for customization?

<ScottM> inactive=true isn't universally used, in some cases people just
use a style with a color for disabled items

<John_Rochford> AWK: A big X could be used to show inactive controls. User
style sheet could define.

<John_Rochford> Glenda: Rescinds suggestion about including "active".

<ScottM> What about striketh

<laura>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Seeing_All_Interface_Elements

<John_Rochford> along with "user interface controls"

<laura> Shawn it was:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/track/actions/69

<John_Rochford> Wayne: Do we need failure techniques for color contrast?

<allanj> awk: not using color alone, what about saturation.

<John_Rochford> AWK: There could be a comment about the elements of color
(e.g., saturation and hue)

<John_Rochford> Jim: Is the W3C going to redefine color?

<John_Rochford> Glenda: Would be nice to have a color definition in the
glossary.

<laura> relative luminance:
https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#relativeluminancedef

<ScottM> Doesn't what we cover already extend beyond hue?

<John_Rochford> Jim: Should the LVTF take up defining color?

<John_Rochford> AWK: We should make sure it gets an "amount of attention".

<John_Rochford> Scott: We should define color so that there is no way
people could "wiggle out".

<John_Rochford> Wayne: Color has been defined via RGB.

<John_Rochford> AWK: Color is going to come up when we talk about inactive
elements.

<John_Rochford> Jim: I'm happy with leaving this (color), but setting up an
action item so we don't forget it.

<John_Rochford> Jim: Any objections to marking it as final?

<ScottM> not from me, go for it

<John_Rochford> Jim: We shall call this one done.

<AWK_> of note for the color/hue issue:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014AprJun/0062.html
Text Size <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Text_Size>

<allanj> jr: will developers have to test with every UA.

<John_Rochford> AWK: No (short version)

<allanj> awk: they would test against the UAs in their conformance claim

<John_Rochford> Laura: We lost "without assistive technology".

<John_Rochford> Laura: in the refinement

<John_Rochford> AWK: What do browsers go up to in terms of size?

<John_Rochford> Wayne and Jim: Chrome = 5; IE = 6

<allanj> proposed: Except for images of text, and captions with time-based
media, text can be resized without assistive technology to the user agent
maximum without loss of content and functionality.

<Glenda> +1 to including the phrase “captions with time-based media”

<allanj> captions - seem to scale with scaling of the video when scaling
the page

<allanj> jr: does the sc include the legibility of the text

<allanj> jr: when zooming elements start overlapping, making the content
illegible

<ScottM> Zoom is not the same as text enlargement

<allanj> discussion of zooming.

<allanj> ja: margins do not enlarge. should that be "should not"

<allanj> wd: yes

<allanj> ja: fixed

<Wayne> scribe: wayne

<ScottM> Zoom is NOT text enlargement

<allanj> wd: when you zoom, the text behaves. not sure what picture

<Zakim> AWK_, you wanted to suggest "captions for time-based media" and to
suggest that perhaps captions for time-based media shouldn't be excluded

<ScottM> Do the browser text sizing affect captions?

<allanj> awk: why exclude captions. in FCC rules. if you need bigger text
even in captions, should be needed.

<Glenda> +1 lets include caption text too!

<allanj> awk: if say just for text. some might say but captions are part of
the text. for some videos captions are part of the video, not a separate
text track

<allanj> ... perhaps have a separate item for captions

<allanj> awk: if we don't exclude it, then it is included

AWK: We should include captions in videos? If we don't exclude it, people
will do it.

<laura> +1 to removing caption loophole
...: If we don't exclude we create a loophole.

<Glenda> no objections :)

<allanj> +1

AllanJ: Remove time based media...

<allanj> proposed: Except for images of text, text can be resized without
assistive technology to @@the user agent maximum without loss of content
and functionality.

<allanj> Except for images of text, text can be resized without assistive
technology to the user agent maximum without loss of content and
functionality.

AllenJ: After considerable discussion we came back to the original.

<allanj> scott: this SC is not zooming, if we mention zooming it should be
removed.

<shawn> [ many browsers also provide functionality to zoom text only ]

<allanj> awk: zooming not prohibited. if the UA only zoomed the designer
would still have to meet the reflow.

<laura> 2 Separate SCs.

<allanj> scott: text enlargement only is a different set of issues for
developers.

<laura> Text Size SC

<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Text_Size

<laura> Size of all elements

<laura>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Size_of_all_elements

<allanj> wayne: right, developers need to handle it.

<allanj> scott: make sure terminology is distinct. Text-size only vs size
of all elements

<allanj> description -- Simply Put: A person can increase or decrease
text-size only. Pictures, diagrams and videos don't change. A Key
functionality to preserve is that complete lines of text fit within the
viewport. For any block of text, the last word of a line is the immediate
predecessor of the first word in the next line in reading order. No
exceptions. Also, text fits within bounding boxes,...

<allanj> ...lines, and columns if present. Finally, margins should not
change with text size.

ScottM: Remove Zoom and replace it with resize text.
... Does changing text size does caaption change?

AWK: If you are using native captions, and they are on top of the video.
With Flash there are ways to have it on top.

<Zakim> question, you wanted to comment on “and videos don’t change”
(confusion between video image versus caption text in video)

Glenda: I was worried about the phrase. We could say "imagery in video".

<allanj> ja: the text size of captions changes but not the size of the
video.

<Glenda> non-text video content doesn’t change

<allanj> Simply Put: A person can increase or decrease text-size only.
Non-text content does not change. A Key functionality to preserve is that
complete lines of text fit within the viewport. For any block of text, the
last word of a line is the immediate predecessor of the first word in the
next line in reading order. No exceptions. Also, text fits within bounding
boxes, lines, and columns if...

<allanj> ...present. Finally, margins should not change with text size.

<Glenda> +1 to removing “Simply Put:”

<Glenda> no objections :)

<ScottM> do it

<laura> Fine with me.

<allanj> any objections to marking Text Size as final

<allanj> none

<shawn> [ the big quotes are in the CSS -- we can change that :-]

<allanj> sending 5 SC to WCAG

<allanj> trackbot, end meeting
Summary of Action Items Summary of Resolutions [End of minutes]

-- 
Jim Allan, Accessibility Coordinator
Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired
1100 W. 45th St., Austin, Texas 78756
voice 512.206.9315    fax: 512.206.9264  http://www.tsbvi.edu/
"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us." McLuhan, 1964