LVTF Meeting Minutes - Nov 17, 2016

Link to today's meeting minutes, also pasted below:
http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html

Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
17 Nov 2016


See also: IRC log


Attendees
Present
      JohnRochford, AllanJ, erich, Laura, Marla, laura, Wayne, AWK, Scott
Regrets
      Shawn, Alastair
Chair
      Jim
Scribe
      JohnRochford, erich
Contents
      Topics
         1.	Contrast: Informational Graphics
         2.	Line Length
         3.	Reflow to Single Column
         4.	Text Colors
         5.	Metadata on Hover
         6.	hyphenation
      Summary of Action Items
      Summary of Resolutions



<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page


<laura> Welcome Marla!


<JohnRochford> scribe:JohnRochford


<AllanJ> open item 1


<AllanJ>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)


AllanJ: This is as close as we are going to get, I think.


(referring to the SC with URL above)


AllanJ: John Avila had an exception, but I agree with Glenda that we should
leave it out for now.


+1 to leaving it out for now


AllanJ: Okay with all to leave it out for now?


Hey you, TF members, how about a


+1 or -1?


<erich> +1


<AllanJ> 1


<laura> +1


Wayne: +1


<AllanJ> +1


Andrew: WCAG working group meetings are Tuesdays, 11 AM Eastern Time.


RESOLUTION:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
... https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
Ready for WCAG.


<AWK> Jim will update Issue #10 (https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/10)
with the wiki content


<AllanJ> Actiion: Jim to update WCAG Github with new text for contrast
Minimum (tag with LVTF and ready for review)


<AllanJ> ACTION: Jim to update WCAG Github with new text for contrast
Minimum (tag with LVTF and ready for review) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]


<trackbot> Created ACTION-86 - Update wcag github with new text for
contrast minimum (tag with lvtf and ready for review) [on Jim Allan - due
2016-11-24].


<AllanJ> open, item 2


Contrast: Informational Graphics


<Wayne> +1


Wayne: +1 to this SC


JohnRochford: +1


<laura> +1


AllanJ: Any objections to this one?


<AllanJ> no objections


<AllanJ>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_(Minimum)


RESOLUTION:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_(Minimum)
 Ready for WCAG.


<AllanJ> ACTION: Jim to update WCAG Gitup for Graphic Contrast Minimum
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_(Minimum)
 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action02]


<trackbot> Created ACTION-87 - Update wcag gitup for graphic contrast
minimum
https://www.w3.org/wai/gl/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/informational_graphic_contrast_(minimum)
 [on Jim Allan - due 2016-11-24].


<laura> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/9


Line Length


<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Line_Length


<AllanJ> alastair: I'm not convinced that this SC adds anything if we have
reflow. I might just not be getting it, see my email in that thread.


Andrew: Is there any scenario that someone would want fewer than 80
characters?
... Why 25 characters?


Wayne: 25 is outside the deviation for word length in many languages.


<AllanJ> wayne will add the references to the wiki


Wayne: Example: Russians and Germans are in about the 18 range.


Andrew: Submit the 2 success criteria separately, I suggest.


Wayne: I offer to write an understanding page: short work up this week with
references.


<AllanJ> Any objections?


No


<AllanJ> heard no objections


RESOLUTION: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Line_Length
Ready for WCAG.


<AllanJ> ACTION: Jim to add
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Line_Length to WCAG
GitHub (after wayne update descriptions and references) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action03]


<trackbot> Created ACTION-88 - Add
https://www.w3.org/wai/gl/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/line_length to wcag
github (after wayne update descriptions and references) [on Jim Allan - due
2016-11-24].


Reflow to Single Column


<AllanJ>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Reflow_to_Single_Column


AllanJ: Any issues with this one?


Wayne: Will change if clause right now based upon suggestion from Andrew.


Thanks, Laura.


+1 to if-clause update


<erich> +1


<AllanJ> +1


<laura> +1


AllanJ: Any objections to sending this SC to WCAG?


<AllanJ> no objections heard


RESOLUTION:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Reflow_to_Single_Column
Ready for WCAG.


<AllanJ> ACTION: Jim to post Reflow
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Reflow_to_Single_Column
to WCAG github [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action04]


<trackbot> Created ACTION-89 - Post reflow
https://www.w3.org/wai/gl/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/reflow_to_single_column
to wcag github [on Jim Allan - due 2016-11-24].


Text Colors


<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Text_Colors


<AllanJ> alastair: I suggested turning the SC text around so it is about
maintaining functionality when the user applies color changes, I think that
would align with WCAG 2 a bit better.


AllanJ: Reviewing suggestions from Alastair.


<AWK> Suggest change: Users must be able to view text with foreground and
background colors chosen from the full range of color choices provided by
the user agent.


Wayne: +1 to AWK's suggestion.
... Will replace SC text right now, withh


with AWK's suggestion.


<AllanJ> jim: Wayne to change wording, review the rest of the document for
alignment with the new wording and bring it up on Dec 1


Gotta go, folks. Erich, will you please take over scribing?


<erich> Scribe:erich


Metadata on Hover


<AllanJ>
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Metadata_On_Hover


Jim: What is the scoop?


Laura: Katie came up with best wording for the SC


<AllanJ> Content that is necessary for understanding which appears on
hover, must be:


<AllanJ> discernible,


<AllanJ> not obscured by other content, and


<AllanJ> available via any input method.


Jim: I have a thought on second bullet, is the mouse arrow considered
content?


Laura: We could drop "by other content"


<AllanJ> Content that is necessary for understanding which appears on
hover, must be:


<AllanJ> discernible,


<AllanJ> not obscured, and


<AllanJ> available via any input method.


Marla: The mouse arrow size is user adjustable


Laura: It's constantly obscured in many cases though


<scottm> yes


Jim: Does this new wording work for people?


Marla: What about content that appears on hover and has an on-mouse out
event?
... Would that be an example of a failure of this, or not apply?


<scottm> Chasing the tooltip


Laura: It's another good example


Jim: So is this situation covered by the wording we have, or not?


Wayne: I think it is


Marla: My last comment, is it's a difficult test case


Jim: Laura, is there anything we can add to the testability, such as
"display all metadata" or something like that?
... You can get tooltips on some mobile devices, via long press vs. simple
touch


Laura: "display the full metadata"? How about that?


Jim: I am assuming we are only talking about title


Andrew: why? the goal is for it to be technology independent


Laura: Good point


Jim: What do we think? Are we good, or is there any other review that needs
to happen?


Marla: Is there a way to elaborate on what 'discernible' means?
... Is there a way to build in to this that the content has to remain open
for some time?


Laura: Maybe we need a definition? Would you like to work together on that
Marla?


Marla: Yes


Wayne: If you look down the page, I have the other situation where you
don't have mouse-out


Marla: Those are good examples


Jim: I was looking at WCAG and thought about 'perceivable', but there's no
definition of 'perceivable' in there
... What if we said 'fully visible'?
... Does 'fully visible' work?


+1 to fully visible


Marla: +1


<Wayne> +1 to fully visible


Andrew: I think there may be something in the mobile group about device
independence


<scottm> My phone just died


Andrew: we should look at those


<scottm> be back on in a minute


Wayne: We're considering text to all kinds of presentations of text, so the
testability needs to be re-thought, because with 6 people with low-vision
there are 6 different ways of looking at this


Andrew: If too funamentally different, we may be talking about Silver


<AWK> +AWK


Jim: In the meantime I reviewed the mobile and not seeing any that pertain


<AllanJ> so we will defer till Dec 1.


<AllanJ> wayne: don't want to drop this.


Jim: That's the end of the agenda, if anyone has anything else to bring up


Wayne: Hyphenation
... Wondering whether this is a Silver one


Jim: The mechanisms seem like sort of a dodge


hyphenation


<AllanJ> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Hyphenation


Jim: Is this a make or break? Shawn suggests it should be AA or AAA


<scottm> and we're back


Wayne: Doesn't seem like one we can put forward at this time


Jim: Ok, we won't address at this time
... Anything else?


HAPPY THANKSGIVING everyone!


<laura> bye


rrsagent: make minutes


Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Jim to add
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Line_Length to WCAG
GitHub (after wayne update descriptions and references) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Jim to post Reflow
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Reflow_to_Single_Column
to WCAG github [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Jim to update WCAG Github with new text for contrast Minimum
(tag with LVTF and ready for review) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Jim to update WCAG Gitup for Graphic Contrast Minimum
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_(Minimum)
 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-lvtf-minutes.html#action02]

Summary of Resolutions
   1.	https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_(Minimum)
   2.
      https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_(Minimum)
 Ready for WCAG.
   3.	https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Line_Length Ready
      for WCAG.
   4.
      https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Reflow_to_Single_Column
 Ready for WCAG.
[End of minutes]
                                                                                       
                    Erich Manser                                                       
                    IBM                                                                
                    Accessibility,                                                     
                    IBM Research                                                       
                    Littleton,                                                         
                    MA / tel:                                                          
                    978-696-1810                                                       
                    Search for                                                         
                    accessibility                                                      
                    answers                                                            
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                       
                                                                                       



You don't need eyesight to have vision.