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Minutes of LVTF teleconference of 9 March 2016

From: Jeanne Spellman <jspellman@spellmanconsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 11:40:01 -0500
To: public-low-vision-a11y-tf@w3.org
Message-ID: <56E051E1.60702@spellmanconsulting.com>
Minutes (HTML):
https://www.w3.org/2016/03/09-lvtf-minutes.html



Text of minutes:

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

            Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

09 Mar 2016

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/03/09-lvtf-irc

Attendees

    Present
           shawn, jeanne, Jim, AWK, Laura, wayne

    Regrets
           JohnR, Erich

    Chair
           Jim & Andrew

    Scribe
           jeanne

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Daylight savings time (US)
          2. [5]FPWD approved
          3. [6]CSUN Plan - who, what sessions, gathering?
          4. [7]lvtf-ACTION-37: Avila to create user need for
             contrast differences
          5. [8]lvtf-ACTION-38: Review 3.1 contrast/color user
             needs
          6. [9]lvtf-ACTION-39: Craft user need on obscured
             perception and operability
          7. [10]WCAG at TPAC
      * [11]Summary of Action Items
      * [12]Summary of Resolutions
      __________________________________________________________

    <allanj> ​Agenda+ Legibility and Readability and ???

    <allanj>
    [13]https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open
    _Issues#Legibility_and_Readability_and_.3F.3F.3F

      [13] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open_Issues#Legibility_and_Readability_and_.3F.3F.3F

    <allanj> JimAllan+

    <laura> I’m getting “Host has not yet Joined the meeting” when
    I try to connect to WebEx.

    <AWK> +AWK

    <scribe> scribe: jeanne

Daylight savings time (US)

    JA: Reminder to non-US participants that the US time will be
    different from world time. The meeting time will be the same in
    the US. It shouldn't be an issue.

FPWD approved

    JA: The publication has been approved, and expect to be
    published around the 17th, before CSUN.
    ... OT announcement: Jim Thatcher turns 80 this month. on the
    25th. There will be at to-do in Austin on the 26th. Ask Jim if
    you want more info.
    ... Thank you to Shawn for getting the publication ready to
    publish!

CSUN Plan - who, what sessions, gathering?

    JA: We can also take it to the list.

    <shawn> Shawn is going to CSUN

    <AWK> AWK is going to CSUN

    Jeanne at CSUN

    <shawn> EOWG is meeting Monday & Tuesday and welcomes visitors!
    (with Chairs permission)

    <shawn> +1 for doing that on the list

    JA: Wayne suggested that we look at sessions and see if there
    are low-vision sessions that we want to attend and bring info
    back to the group.
    ... also perhaps get together.

    SLH: Invited to EOWG meeting. Get chairs permission - Sharron
    Rush and Brent Bakken
    ... we will be at the Solamar Hotel. Great location, great
    food.

lvtf-ACTION-37: Avila to create user need for contrast differences

    <shawn> [14]https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_March_2016

      [14] https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_F2F_March_2016

    JA: Jon is not here, but there was interesting discussion of
    contrast of transition state on Github. Whether a hover should
    be under WCAG.

    <AWK> [15]https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/157

      [15] https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/157

    JS: what is the argument that WCAG doesn't apply?

    JA: It seems to swing on the definition of transitional states.
    ... there was an example of links seeming to disappear.
    ... that was an example of active state, not hover

lvtf-ACTION-38: Review 3.1 contrast/color user needs

    <allanj>
    [16]https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/blob/gh-pages/WC-
    UA-alignment

      [16] https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/blob/gh-pages/WC-UA-alignment

    <AWK>
    [17]http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/WC-UA-alignment.htm
    l

      [17] http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/WC-UA-alignment.html

    <laura>
    [18]https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open
    _Issues#Possible_User_Need_Modification

      [18] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open_Issues#Possible_User_Need_Modification

    JA: I'm setting up a chart that lists the requirements and
    where they are addressed in WCAG and UAAG

    <AWK> Needed to rename the file to include .html

lvtf-ACTION-39: Craft user need on obscured perception and
operability

    JA: Action-39 looking at threads on the mailing list.

    <shawn> thread view
    [19]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y
    -tf/2016Mar/thread.html

      [19] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Mar/thread.html

    WD: I think it was Jon who came up with the final user need
    from that discussion

    <allanj> proposal: User Need: Users can see and operate all
    interface elements that are intended for users to see and
    operate. This includes when users have changed display settings
    such as text size, magnification level, and cursor size.

    <laura>
    [20]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y
    -tf/2016Mar/0037.html

      [20] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Mar/0037.html

    Laura: Jon added something after that.

    <Wayne> User Need: Users can see and operate all interface
    elements that are intended for users to see and operate. This
    includes when users have changed display settings such as text
    size, magnification level, and cursor size.

    <laura>
    [21]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y
    -tf/2016Mar/0038.html

      [21] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Mar/0038.html

    JA: We want to add "pointers, cursors, and carats"

    <shawn> User Need: Users can see and operate all interface
    elements that are intended for users to see and operate. This
    includes when users have changed display settings such as text
    size, magnification, and cursor.

    SLH: We need to be more general. Maybe note need magnification
    "level" and also want to cover things like cursor shape.

    WD: It isn't the cursor as much as the tooltip that obscures
    the active elments so you can't click the element.

    LC: There are 3 examples in the wiki of screenshots of tooltips
    obscuring the active element.

    <laura>
    [22]https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open
    _Issues#Work_with_User_Settings

      [22] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open_Issues#Work_with_User_Settings

    <allanj> User Need: Users can see and operate all interface
    elements that are intended for users to see and operate. This
    includes when users have changed display settings such as text
    size, magnification, and cursor.

    JA: We can flesh it out with specific examples.

    <allanj> +1

    <laura> +1

    <Wayne> +1

    +1

    RESOLUTION: add User Need: Users can see and operate all
    interface elements that are intended for users to see and
    operate. This includes when users have changed display settings
    such as text size, magnification, and cursor.

    AWK: suggestions Users can see and operate all interactive
    interface elements. This includes when users have changed
    display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor.

    SLH: It goes beyond interactive. It can't obscure text.

    WD: There are user interface elements that we don't get to see
    and operate.

    AWK: I agree with what we want, I am just trying to clarify
    wording.
    ... I thought the original wording excluded text.

    SLH: I wouldn't think that text is an interface element.

    AWK: It is a gray area in WCAG.
    ... I think plain text is a non-interactive interface element.
    ... anything that is available visually for the purpose of
    reading or interaction, then users with low vision should be
    able to read and interact without regard to the adaptations
    such as text size, magnification, and cursor.

    WD: Users are able to see and interact with all user interface
    elements

    <shawn> see
    [23]http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#s
    eeing-all-interface-elements

      [23] http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#seeing-all-interface-elements

    <AWK> Users can view and, where applicable, interact with all
    content presented visually, including when users have changed
    display settings such as text size, magnification, and cursor
    appearance.

    Anything that is available visually for the purpose of reading
    or interaction, then users with low vision should be able to
    read and interact without regard to the adaptations such as
    text size, magnification, and cursor.

    <shawn> Shawn is OK with "interface elements" including static
    text and interactive elements

    AWK: Do we want to also include browser scroll bars. There are
    people who take them away.
    ... if you take them away, how do you interact and view all the
    content.

    JA: People create a box where the font fits in a specific size,
    so they remove the scroll bars. Then a user increases the font
    size, and then can't get to all the text.

    LC: How about "control" instead of "operate". That would then
    include the scrollbar.

    <allanj> andrew - Users can view and, where applicable,
    interact with all content presented visually, including when
    users have changed display settings such as text size,
    magnification, and cursor appearance.

    WD: I like to stick with operate since it is closer to WCAG. I
    think the scrollbar is a different issue.

    <shawn> previous: Users can see and operate all interface
    elements that are intended for users to see and operate.

    SLH: It needs to be broader than content -- it includes the
    user interface for the browser.

    <AWK> Users can view and, where applicable, interact with all
    content and user interface controls presented visually,
    including when users have changed display settings such as text
    size, magnification, and cursor appearance.

    JA: Content is in the window, the browser interface elements
    are all around it.

    +1

    <allanj> +1

    <shawn> -1 too complex

    WD: I would like to add the caret
    ... when you make the caret larger, it only is made thicker,
    which then obscures the text that it is supposed to be
    indicating position. See Jon's email

    <shawn> the list is of examples, not intended to be
    comprehensive

    AWK: it is the same problem with the mouse cursor
    ... there is one point on the cursor that is really the focus
    point, despite the size of the cursor. It's the same issue with
    a thick caret indicator, the focus point is the left edge, the
    center or the right edge. The user has to know.

    <shawn> Users can view and interact with all interface elements
    presented visually

    AWK: it includes "and user interface controls" because it would
    then cover the UAAG items like the scrollbars and browser
    controls.

    <shawn> Users can view and interact with all content and
    interface elements presented visually

    AWK: then we avoid the problem where people don't think of text
    as a user interface controls.

    <wordsmithing to simplify the wording>

    JA: Element implies content. Controls imply both user interface
    and content.

    <shawn> Users can see and interact with all content and user
    interface controls presented visually

    <shawn> Users can see and interact with all content and user
    interface controls presented visually, including when users
    have changed display settings such as text size, magnification,
    and cursor appearance.

    +1

    <allanj> =1

    <laura> +1

    <allanj> +1

    <Wayne> =1

    <AWK> +1

    <shawn> +3/4

    RESOLUTION: update previous resolution to: Users can see and
    interact with all content and user interface controls presented
    visually, including when users have changed display settings
    such as text size, magnification, and cursor appearance.

WCAG at TPAC

    <shawn>
    [24]https://www.w3.org/blog/2015/09/tpac-2016-dates-and-locatio
    n-announced/

      [24] https://www.w3.org/blog/2015/09/tpac-2016-dates-and-location-announced/

    AWK: WCAG will be meeting at TPAC in September. We will be
    talking about Extensions and would like people to attend
    ... 19-23 September

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

     1. [25]add User Need: Users can see and operate all interface
        elements that are intended for users to see and operate.
        This includes when users have changed display settings such
        as text size, magnification, and cursor.
     2. [26]update previous resolution to: Users can see and
        interact with all content and user interface controls
        presented visually, including when users have changed
        display settings such as text size, magnification, and
        cursor appearance.

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________
Received on Wednesday, 9 March 2016 16:40:18 UTC

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