Minutes: Low Vision Task Force, June 23, 2016

Hello everyone,

Minutes from  today's teleconference can be accessed as hypertext at:
https://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-lvtf-minutes.html
and as plain text following this announcement --  please report any
errors, omissions, clarifications, mis-attributions, and the like by
replying-to this announcement on-list.

Thanks.

Kindest Regards,
Laura

- DRAFT -
Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
23 Jun 2016

See also: IRC log
Attendees

Present
    allanj, Scott, AWK
Regrets
    Wayne, JohnR
Chair
    Jim
Scribe
    Laura

Contents

    Topics
        Modify SC WCAG 1.4.8 item 2 (80 characters)
https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues/6
        Modify/New SC Reflow to Single Column - WCAG 1.4.8 item 5 or
New item https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues/7
        single column for all content
    Summary of Action Items
    Summary of Resolutions

+ Laura

<scribe> Scribe: Laura
Modify SC WCAG 1.4.8 item 2 (80 characters)
https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues/6

<allanj> 2. Width is @@user adjustable between no less than 5
characters and @@ no more than 80 characters or glyphs (40 if CJK).

Jim: proposing inserting a clause.

Scott: 80 characters is outdated.
... doesn’t know if we can define something that makes sense.

<allanj> scott: like the range, perhaps a bottom of 10 characters, and
with upper range of X, because of wide monitors.

Scott: Most important is scaling.

shawn: don’t know why we want to lower characters

<allanj> scott: optimize for some range, a variety of widths, support
flexibility where we can.

scott: want to encourage flexibility.

jim: would like to fit into existing SCs if possible.

awk: big discussion around SC numbering

<ScottM> Width is user adjustable, optimized for 80 characters

awk: large push to not change what wcag has now.

<ScottM> but then what does optimized mean?

WCAG 2.1 SC Numbering: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_SC_Numbering

<ScottM> I'd be fine with that

<allanj> jim: width is user adjustable. with a lowest range

scott: hard to define a number

<allanj> scott: this is a AAA, so never checked line length.

shawn: user need for short line widths

<ScottM> minimum of 1 word?

<allanj> proposal: width is user adjustable @@do we need a lower bound.

jim: 148 is where we may want to try to put most things in.
... been sending items to the list. would like comments.

RESOLUTION: 1.4.8.2 width is user adjustable @@do we need a lower bound

RESOLUTION: 1.4.8.2 width is user adjustable @@do we need a lower bound

<shawn> ^^ that is draft for further consideration
Modify/New SC Reflow to Single Column - WCAG 1.4.8 item 5 or New item
https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-SC/issues/7

jim: falls under WCAG 1.4.8
... 2 approaches

shawn: needs to be a new SC

<allanj> shawn: not just blocks of text. talking about the entire page

scott: muli-column is very difficult to use

<allanj> scott: multicolumn is very difficult with screen mag.

scott: single column is much easier

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say single column for blocks of text is
probably A - whereas for all content maybe AA or AAA

great. thanks.

<allanj> shawn: 2 SC, one A for blocks of text, one AA or AAA for all
content/page

scott: discourage for multi-columns for text

<allanj> shawn: allow users to have blocks of text as a single column

scott: data tables are different

<allanj> shawn: what is it called when you make a multicolumn page
with nav etc into a single columns? linearize content?

<allanj> users can make main content single column

scott: screen magnifier can't reflow

<allanj> single column of X width

<allanj> Main content can be displayed as a single column that does
not require the user to scroll horizontally to read a line of text on
a full-screen window regardless of viewport or device size.

<allanj> shawn: what about footer with 4 columns of links...that needs to reflow

<ScottM> reflow document into a single column?

<allanj> shawn: def of blocks of text more than one sentence of text.

<ScottM> linear content can be displayed in a single column?

<allanj> shawn:

shawn: ... block of text can be presented in a single column.

scott: may not want to limit to text

shawn: may need to address other content separately

scott: it is still the same problem.

<ScottM> +1

<allanj> Proposal: Block of text can be displayed as a single column.

shawn: text can be displayed in a single column.

<ScottM> +1

<allanj> +1

+1

<ScottM> my graphics are feeling left out :)

<shawn> for a draft for further consideration -- realizing that ther
are other issues that also need to be addressed - including images AND
overall page content

shawn: is that level A or AA?

Scott: A seems reasonable.

<allanj> +1

<allanj> folks with cognitive issues have real difficulty with multicolumn

<ScottM> A

+1

<shawn> multicolumn and screen magnification (especially with any
cognitive disability) can be totally unusable / in accessible

<shawn> +1 for A

shawn: if it a new SC we can expand to images
single column for all content

<allanj> shawn: ideally everything on the page linearized so you don't
miss things on the right side of page, and left justified

Scott: github is a good example
... miss items if you don’t scroll

jim: mobile sites are usually single column

<allanj> andrew: mobile view too prescriptive

<shawn> Users can choose all content linearized in a single column and
left justified

awk: need to define what is needed. not specify how it is achieved

<shawn> Users can choose to have all content linearized in a single
column and left aligned.

<allanj> lists should still be indented according to their semantics

<shawn> Users can choose to have all content linearized in a single
column and similarly aligned.

<shawn> :-)

<shawn> issue is things like groups of controlas that are right
aligned -- like in GitHub: Watch, Start, Fork

<allanj> awk: I18N issues, ltr and rtl languages and justification

shawn: with screen magnification right aligned items may be missed

<shawn> Users can choose to have all content linearized in a single
column and with the same primary alignment.

<allanj> right aligned things are there because the scroll bar is
there, and scrolling mechanism (scrollbar) is on the right side
because it is at the end of what you read

<ScottM> I like primary alignment

shawn: same primary alignment

<allanj> shawn: justification follows the same primary alignment as
the base language

<shawn> Proposal for working draft for now: Users can choose to have
all content linearized in a single column, with the same primary
alignment.

<allanj> FF move scroll bar to left side
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/995089

scott: scrollbar provide indicators of more content.

shawn: this point is findability
... be as unperceptive as we can

<allanj> discussion of reading all right aligned page

scott: highly variable
... should follow the reading order of the language.

laura: Users can view all content linearized in a single column.
Justification follows the same primary alignment as the base language.

<allanj> AWK: developers will say...just turn styles off.

<ScottM> I don't want to have to turn off styles

<ScottM> that introduces other problems

awk: people will address this with browsers allowing you to turn off styles.

<allanj> shawn: that would work. that would be minimum, would need advisory

<shawn> s/ maybe we say OK with that as minimum, would want advisory
to do more, e.g., make mobile version available on desktop with a
button

scott: if you turn off styles, it turns off functionality of the page.
... should not have to make custom style sheet.

<allanj> scott: styles tied to functionality, if styles off, could break page

awk: alignment by be tied into functionality

<shawn> s/maybe we say OK with that as minimum, would want advisory to
do more, e.g., make mobile version available on desktop with a button

trackbot, end meeting


-- 
Laura L. Carlson

Received on Thursday, 23 June 2016 16:43:20 UTC