- From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 10:49:29 -0500
- To: public-lod@w3.org
- Message-ID: <54E60609.4050001@openlinksw.com>
On 2/19/15 10:32 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote: > Hello Paul, > > let me put this into two simple statements: > > 1) There is no canonical ordering of triples > > 2) A good triple editor should reflect this by letting the user determine the order > > Regards, > > Michael Brunnbauer Yes! Kingsley > > On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 03:50:33PM +0100, Michael Brunnbauer wrote: >> Hello Paul, >> >> I am not so sure if this is good enough. If you add something to the end of a >> list in a UI, you normally expect it to stay there. If you accept that it >> will be put in its proper position later, you may - as user - still have >> trouble figuring out where that position is (even with the heuristics you gave). >> >> The problem repeats with the triple object if the properties have been ordered. >> As user, you might feel even more compelled to introduce a deviant ordering on >> this level. >> >> Regards, >> >> Michael Brunnbauer >> >> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 09:07:37AM -0500, Paul Houle wrote: >>> There are quite a few simple heuristics that will give "good enough" >>> results, consider for instance: >>> >>> (1) order predicates by alphabetical order (by rdfs:label or by localname >>> or the whole URL) >>> (2) order predicates by some numerical property given by a custom predicate >>> in the schema >>> (3) order predicates by the type of the domain alphabetically, and then >>> order by the name of the predicates >>> (4) work out the partial ordering of types by inheritance so "Person" winds >>> up at the top and "Actor" shows up below that >>> >>> Freebase does something like (4) and that is "good enough". >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2/19/15 4:52 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Paul, >>>>> >>>>> an interesting aspect of such a system is the ordering of triples - even >>>>> if you restrict editing to one subject. Either the order is predefined >>>>> and the >>>>> user will have to search for his new triple after doing an insert or the >>>>> user >>>>> determines the position of his new triple. >>>>> >>>>> In the latter case, the app developer will want to use something like >>>>> reification - at least internally. This is the point when the app >>>>> developer >>>>> and the Semantic Web expert start to disagree ;-) >>>>> >>>> Not really, in regards to "Semantic Web expert starting to disagree" per >>>> se. You can order by Predicate or use Reification. >>>> >>>> When designing our RDF Editor, we took the route of breaking things down >>>> as follows: >>>> >>>> Book (Named Graph Collection e.g. in a Quad Store or service that >>>> understands LDP Containers etc..) --> (contains) --> Pages (Named Graphs) >>>> -- Paragraphs (RDF Sentence/Statement Collections). >>>> >>>> The Sentence/Statement Collections are the key item, you are honing into, >>>> and yes, it boils down to: >>>> >>>> 1. Grouping sentences/statements by predicate per named graph to create a >>>> paragraph >>>> 2. Grouping sentences by way of reification where each sentence is >>>> identified and described per named graph. >>>> >>>> Rather that pit one approach against the other, we simply adopted both, as >>>> options. >>>> >>>> Anyway, you raise a very important point that's generally overlooked. >>>> Ignoring this fundamental point is a shortcut to hell for any editor that's >>>> to be used in a multi-user setup, as you clearly understand :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Kingsley >>>> >>>> >>>>> Maybe they can compromise on a system with a separate named graph per >>>>> triple >>>>> (BTW what is the status of blank nodes shared between named graphs?). >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Michael Brunnbauer >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 03:08:33PM -0500, Paul Houle wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I am looking at some cases where I have databases that are similar to >>>>>> Dbpedia and Freebase in character, sometimes that big (ok, those >>>>>> particular databases), sometimes smaller. Right now there are no blank >>>>>> nodes, perhaps there are things like the "compound value types" from >>>>>> Freebase which are sorta like blank nodes but they have names, >>>>>> >>>>>> Sometimes I want to manually edit a few records. Perhaps I want to >>>>>> delete >>>>>> a triple or add a few triples (possibly introducing a new subject.) >>>>>> >>>>>> It seems to me there could be some kind of system which points at a >>>>>> SPARQL >>>>>> protocol endpoint (so I can keep my data in my favorite triple store) and >>>>>> given an RDFS or OWL schema, automatically generates the forms so I can >>>>>> easily edit the data. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there something out there? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Paul Houle >>>>>> Expert on Freebase, DBpedia, Hadoop and RDF >>>>>> (607) 539 6254 paul.houle on Skype ontology2@gmail.com >>>>>> http://legalentityidentifier.info/lei/lookup >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Kingsley Idehen >>>> Founder & CEO >>>> OpenLink Software >>>> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com >>>> Personal Weblog 1: http://kidehen.blogspot.com >>>> Personal Weblog 2: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen >>>> Twitter Profile: https://twitter.com/kidehen >>>> Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about >>>> LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen >>>> Personal WebID: http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen#this >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Paul Houle >>> Expert on Freebase, DBpedia, Hadoop and RDF >>> (607) 539 6254 paul.houle on Skype ontology2@gmail.com >>> http://legalentityidentifier.info/lei/lookup >> -- >> ++ Michael Brunnbauer >> ++ netEstate GmbH >> ++ Geisenhausener Straße 11a >> ++ 81379 München >> ++ Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80 >> ++ Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89 >> ++ E-Mail brunni@netestate.de >> ++ http://www.netestate.de/ >> ++ >> ++ Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München) >> ++ USt-IdNr. DE221033342 >> ++ Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer >> ++ Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel > > -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Founder & CEO OpenLink Software Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com Personal Weblog 1: http://kidehen.blogspot.com Personal Weblog 2: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen Twitter Profile: https://twitter.com/kidehen Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen Personal WebID: http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen#this
Attachments
- application/pkcs7-signature attachment: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Received on Thursday, 19 February 2015 15:49:52 UTC