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Re: FW: Failed to port datastore to RDF, will go Mongo

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:04:59 -0500
Message-ID: <4CED61DB.4010909@openlinksw.com>
To: Ben O'Steen <bosteen@gmail.com>
CC: William Waites <ww@styx.org>, public-lod@w3.org, Friedrich Lindenberg <friedrich@pudo.org>
On 11/24/10 1:12 PM, Ben O'Steen wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-11-24 at 12:51 -0500, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>> What does MySQL 4 do with this data that can't be done with a
>> moderately capable RDF quad / triplestore?
>> If I am going to run rings around this thing, I need a starting
>> point :-)
> That's not the point that is being made. A competent developer, using
> all the available links and documentation, spending days researching and
> learning and trying to implement, is unable to make an app using a
> triplestore that is on a par with one they can create very quickly using
> a relational database.
Fine, so there lies the problem.

Here is my simple guide for said competent RDBMS programmer:

1. Keep your presentation templates for tabular data manipulation intact 
(e.g. your PHP, Ruby etc. based dynamic HTML pages)
2. Keep variable bindings intact
3. Make SPARQL SELECT queries against RDF triple / quad store
4. See if you have the equivalent of what you has using SQL (it should 
be re. tabular data representation as based for page generation).

Now, how do we go beyond that?

1. Just add subject URIs to the Tabular result set so that you can see 
the power of a URI when used as DBMS key (of course this should be a 
Linked Data URI that de-references to a structured description in the 
form of an EAV graph).

The beauty of the single step above is this:

1. You realize that RDBMS keys are impoverished - a function of how 
RDBMS engine are implemented i.e., most don't support Reference values

Impoverishment is accentuated by:

1. URIs are portable -- drop them in any browser and a description of 
Referent with manifest (e.g. in a Web Page that may or may not also 
double as a machine readable descriptor document courtesy of RDFa)

2. URIs can be Joined in powerful ways that expand the range of data 
they expose (even when they are sole focus of a query) -- this is where 
an owl:sameAs relation (just another record in the RDF DBMS comes into 
play, no schema alteration whatsoever)

3. Then all of sudden you discover new data about your URIs Referent 
(101 re. Web since its global), all you do is add records (SPO or EAV 
3-tuples) to your DBMS.

You can't pull this off with MySQL in "schema last" mode. And you can't 
do anything with Reference values let alone walk the relational property 
graph and all the goodies a basic follow-your-nose pattern will unveil 
to you etc..

> This is about the 1000th time I have heard this story, and the ability
> range of those saying the same thing is huge - from 9-5 devs who learn
> what they need to people who research and teach artificial intelligence
> and other cutting edge areas and who actively learn new, complex skills
> just because they can.

Not true, but I do understand how you could arrive at that conclusion.
> The point is not whether someone who (co?)developed the virtuoso
> triplestore can make RDF work, it's whether someone with the time,
> current documentation and inclination can.
Anyone can exploit Linked Data. The trouble is that the Linked Data 
narrative could could be better, esp. for your particular developer/user 
profile :-)


1. http://bit.ly/cNLWsS - simple guide re. RDF based Linked Data and 
Virtuoso (load RDF and that's it, no coding re. Linked Data deployment, 
just get-going etc..)
2. http://www.delicious.com/kidehen/pivot_collection_app -- sample 
collection of demos using PivotViewer
3. http://www.delicious.com/kidehen/linked_data_demo -- general Linked 
Data demo collection
4. http://ode.openlinksw.com/example.html -- example that shows a 
bookmark++ use pattern (install the extension and/or bookmarklet) visit 
places, query later using a myriad of tools that are on offer (Virtuoso 
or from elsewhere)
5. http://uriburner.com - a service that shows what can exist in your 
own data space post installation of Virtuoso + Linked Data middleware 
component (the sponger)
6. http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2010-10/msg00263.html -- 
discussion with John F. Sowa about Webs & Fabrics, I make some RDF and 
RDBMS comments of relevance, plus links to live examples of hypermedia 
based structured data using an iCalendar document .

> Ben
>> -- 
>> Regards,
>> Kingsley Idehen	
>> President&  CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>> Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen



Kingsley Idehen	
President&  CEO
OpenLink Software
Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter/Identi.ca: kidehen
Received on Wednesday, 24 November 2010 19:05:34 UTC

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