- From: Martin Hepp (UniBW) <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
- Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:01:19 +0200
- To: Michael Hausenblas <michael.hausenblas@deri.org>
- CC: mark.birbeck@webbackplane.com, david@dbooth.org, Linked Data community <public-lod@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <4A4099DF.5080603@ebusiness-unibw.org>
It was not my intend to insult anybody. But I still don't get why some of you want to recommend a pattern that breaks with a current W3C recommendation just on the basis that there are many documents out there that break with it. The Swoogle post from 2007 simply says that there are many documents out there that are not using it properly. But there are also many RDF resources out there that break with LOD principles and LOD recommendations and nobody would dare to question the principles solely on the basis of bad implementations. And Michael, please be frank - there is a tendency in the LOD community which goes along the lines of "OWL and DL-minded SW research has proven obsolete anyway, so we LOD guys and girls just pick and use the bits and pieces we like and don't care about the rest". As Kingsley said - deceptively simple solutions are cheap in the beginning but can be pretty costly in the long run. What made the Web so powerful is that its Architecture is extremely well-thought underneath the first cover of simplicity. Exactly the opposite of "I will use this pragmatic pattern until it breaks" but instead "architectural beauty for eternity". Just look at the http specs. The fact that you can do a nice 303 is because someone in the distant past very cleverly designed a protocol goes well beyond the pragmatic "I have a URL (sic!) and want to fetch the Web page in HTML (sic!)". So when being proud of being the "pragmatic guys" keep in mind that nothing is as powerful in practice as something that is theoretically consistent. Best Martin Michael Hausenblas wrote: > Martin, > > >> (moving this to LOD public as suggested) >> > > Thanks. > > >> General note: I am quite unhappy with a general movement in parts of the >> LOD community to clash with the OWL world even when that is absolutely >> unnecessary. It is just a bad engineering practice to break with >> existing standards unless you can justify the side-effects. And this >> stubborn "i don't care what the OWL specs says" pattern is silly, in >> particular if the real motivation of many proponents of this approach is >> that they don't want or cannot read the OWL specs. >> > > I don't think it is particular helpful to insult people, to utter > imputations and judge a book by its cover. If we can agree to stop using > such terminology I'm more than happy to continue the discussion. > > >> On the other hand - what is your pain with using RDFa in a way so that >> the extracted RDF model is equivalent to the model from an RDF/XML or N3 >> serialization? Why this absolutely arbitrary "we LOD guys don't like >> owl:import ( we don't like OWL anyway, you know?), so we simply omit it" >> behavior? >> >> It is just silly to break with established standards just for saving 1 - >> 2 triples. >> > > Ok, so, again, for the chaps who didn't get the entire story. Martin > champions the use of owl:import (and wants to see it written down as a good > practice?) in linked data. > > My take on this is as follows: when one takes the linked data principles and > applies them in practice (esp. referring to #2, here) there are naturally a > dozens implementation choices as the principles simply leave room for > interpretation. > > The people here know me from the RDFa TF, from the AWWSW TF and last but not > least from the LOD community as a simple-minded, pragmatic guy, I hope ;) > > So, my hunch would be: the market will make the final decision, not a Martin > Hepp and also not a Michael Hausenblas. If people think this is a clever > idea, they will use it when publishing linked data. AFAIK, to date the usage > of owl:import in linked data is close to non-existing (even in pre-LOD times > it seemed to be not very common [1]). > > Concluding, I'd propose - respecting the nature of good *practice* - once we > notice a serious usage of owl:import in LOD data, we may want to rehash this > topic. > > Cheers, > Michael > > [1] http://ebiquity.umbc.edu/blogger/2007/06/15/how-owlimport-is-used/ > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------- martin hepp e-business & web science research group universitaet der bundeswehr muenchen e-mail: mhepp@computer.org phone: +49-(0)89-6004-4217 fax: +49-(0)89-6004-4620 www: http://www.unibw.de/ebusiness/ (group) http://www.heppnetz.de/ (personal) skype: mfhepp twitter: mfhepp Check out the GoodRelations vocabulary for E-Commerce on the Web of Data! ======================================================================== Webcast: http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/webcast/ Talk at the Semantic Technology Conference 2009: "Semantic Web-based E-Commerce: The GoodRelations Ontology" http://tinyurl.com/semtech-hepp Tool for registering your business: http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/tools/goodrelations-annotator/ Overview article on Semantic Universe: http://tinyurl.com/goodrelations-universe Project page and resources for developers: http://purl.org/goodrelations/ Tutorial materials: Tutorial at ESWC 2009: The Web of Data for E-Commerce in One Day: A Hands-on Introduction to the GoodRelations Ontology, RDFa, and Yahoo! SearchMonkey http://www.ebusiness-unibw.org/wiki/GoodRelations_Tutorial_ESWC2009
Received on Tuesday, 23 June 2009 09:01:59 UTC