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Re: An IRC discussion with Alexandre Bertails re SSUE-19:

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2013 17:14:29 -0400
Message-ID: <51B0FBB5.6010908@openlinksw.com>
To: public-ldp-wg@w3.org
On 6/6/13 3:07 PM, Alexandre Bertails wrote:
> On 06/06/2013 02:28 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>> On 6/6/13 2:14 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>> On 6/6/13 1:56 PM, Alexandre Bertails wrote:
>>>> I have to say that I don't understand that part. How do you fix the
>>>> interpretation of ldp:Container to be its definition in the document
>>>> that you dereference at http://www.w3.org/ns/ldp? Isn't it introducing
>>>> something that is not defined in RDF? I thought that RDF was not
>>>> relying on HTTP on purpose.
>>> RDF is scoped to IRIs (which may or may not be HTTP scheme URIs)
>>> RDF based Linked Data is scoped to HTTP URIs.
>>> Hopefully, QED.
>> A little clearer:
>> 1.  RDF is scoped to IRIs (which may or may not be HTTP scheme URIs) --
>> its sole function (re. Model Theory aspect) is structured data
>> representation where the semantics of Relations are explicit rather than
>> implicit
>> 2. Linked Data -- its prime goal is using HTTP URIs to denote Relations
>> that resolve to the meaning/sense of said Relations (so you end up with
>> a graph comprised of Relations that describes the HTTP URI's referent)
>> 3. RDF based Linked Data -- combing both such that HTTP URIs resolve to
>> descriptions of URI Referents which is a wordy way of saying the HTTP
>> URIs resolve to an entity relationship graph endowed with *explicit*
>> entity relationship semantics that are human- and 
>> machine-comprehensible.
>> Thus:
>> 1.
>> http://linkeddata.uriburner.com/about/html/http/www.w3.org/ns/ldp%01Container 
>> -- an HTML document that describes ldp:Container via an entity
>> relationship graph based description
>> 2. see footer section of the page above for alternative representations
>> of the same entity relationship graph based description.
>> Hopefully, QED :-)
> I'm sorry Kingsley. I always feel very stupid when I read your
> answers. I mean, I try really hard to understand what you're saying,
> and it looks all regular English to me (as you know, I'm not a native
> English speaker). But you refer to concepts that I don't know or have
> never seen together. I always fail to connect your answers with the
> questions being asked. And most of the time it looks to me that they
> address a broader scope than what this group is trying to achieve.
> So please don't take it bad if I don't answer any of your emails and
> excuse me again.
> Alexandre.

With regards to putting concepts together I can try some links instead. 
The key point here is that the kernel of this entire realm is 
"Relations". Once the concept of "Relations" is understood everything 
else kicks into place. HTTP URIs just make the whole thing webby.

When I say "webby" I don't necessarily mean the public World Wide Web, I 
mean the kind of Web-like structure that AWWW facilitates.

1. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=function -- Function (remember, 
when not void, they return 0 or 1 i.e., True or False)
2. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relation -- Relation (a Relation 
is really a Function)
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identifier -- you have literals or 
references (e.g., HTTP URIs)
4. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-3 -- Links (which denote 
5. http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/history/proposal-fig1.gif -- 
original Web design illustration (note: the "describes" 
link/relation/connector) .

RDF is just about describing things via Relations.

RDF becomes webby when you use HTTP URIs as identifiers for Relation 
Subjects, Predicates, and Objects (optionally).

Even if you discard the letters "R-D-F" and/or phrase "Linked Data" 
what's outlined above remains factual (i.e., verifiable via independent 
rigorous evaluation). The semantics being sought are expressible at many 

1. (X)HTML -- <link/>
2. HTTP -- Link:
3. Data -- RDF based structured data + HTTP URIs just ensure the data 
isn't in a silo (application or service) i.e., its is loosely coupled 
with whatever needs to make use of it.

BTW -- I believe we can get there. Its just about putting these puzzle 
pieces together with an open mind :-)



Kingsley Idehen	
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
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Received on Thursday, 6 June 2013 21:14:51 UTC

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