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Re: Examples in the LDP primer

From: Roger Menday <roger.menday@uk.fujitsu.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 16:53:27 +0000
CC: "public-ldp-wg@w3.org" <public-ldp-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <2F7C1016-E8C8-4806-A76C-287BB9929899@uk.fujitsu.com>
To: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>

hello Kingsley, 

I'm just saying that we should either :

* make it clear that whilst we use UR*L*s for "Zaza the Cat", we understand what we are doing here :)
* change all examples (across all documents) to do it the "proper" way. 

Roger


On 16 Dec 2013, at 16:35, Kingsley Idehen wrote:

> On 12/16/13 8:57 AM, Roger Menday wrote:
>> 
>> Regarding what the Spec says about Things vs. Documents-about-Things ... I think we are little vague. 
>> Maybe this is intentional, but my feeling is that it would be better if we were more transparent.
>> 
>> Roger
> 
> HTTP URIs denote anything.
> 
> HTTP URLs are HTTP URIs that denote documents.
> 
> WebIDs are HTTP URIs that denote agents (people, organizations, software, robots, and anything else capable of mechanized operation).
> 
> These are fundamental facts re., Web Architecture, RDF, and RDF based Linked Data. 
> 
> "Things vs Documents" does confuse the matter. The issue here is simply one of denotation using different kinds of HTTP URIs. 
> 
> The spec has no reason to not reflect this reality. The same applies any examples. 
> 
> Kingsley 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 14 Dec 2013, at 15:29, Nandana Mihindukulasooriya wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Henry,
>>> 
>>> First of all, the examples in the primer will definitely change to reflect the changes that we are discussing in the WG at the moment but we will wait until we get the WG consensus and whatever resolutions are incorporated to the spec. If we try to adapt examples while the discussions are ongoing, that would leads to too much extra work.
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net> wrote:
>>> >  <bugs/> a bt:BugCollection;
>>> >       bt:hasBugs <1>, ...., <300000>.
>>> 
>>> [[ aside for Primer writers:
>>> minor tweak. Your <1>, ...., <30000> are information resources, so they are documents. And so your
>>> repository is one of bug reports. Bug Reports are things I imagine can change from being bugs, to being feature
>>> requests etc... Bugs themselves on the other hand can be duplicates of other bugs. So you can have less bugs than
>>> bug reports.
>>> 
>>> We discussed this a lot in the mailing list and the first examples of the primer do not make the distinction between the information resource and the bug by intention and not because we are confused. It was to keep the examples as simpler as possible. I think everyone in the WG understands that the BugReport/Bug or ProductDescription/Product are not the same thing and they can have properties that might have different values for creator, createdData, licence, copyrights, etc. 
>>> 
>>> However, the idea was not to make the examples look more complex than necessary specially to the Web developers who would like to get a grasp of LDP and are not aware about this http range 14 issue. The idea was to introduce the                       distinction between the information resource and the thing it represent in a later example (Example 3.1) in the primer. As you think the information resource and the thing it represent should always be given separate identifiers and that distinction should always be made explicit, there are set of people who think it can be kept simpler when that distinction is not very important in their use cases.  For example, in the URLs-in-Data [1], they say that it is a decision of the publisher to decide how distinct those two are and model accordingly. Either way, once we have the consensus on three or two new types of containers, we will organize the examples in the primer accordingly and the examples covering SimpleContainer will provide a good starting point. If you still think that all the examples in the primer should make that distinction explicit, we can do a straw-poll in the mailing list or proposal in a telco and modify the spec according to the result. 
>>>  
>>>  Furthermore bt:hasBugs sounds like a relation from one to many, whereas in RDF it is a relation from
>>> one to one - so the relation should really be bt:hasBugReport .
>>> 
>>> We agree on this and the property used in the Primer "hasBug" from day one not "hadBugs".
>>> 
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Nandana
>>> 
>>> [1] - http://www.w3.org/TR/urls-in-data/#landing-pages
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kingsley Idehen	      
> Founder & CEO 
> OpenLink Software     
> Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
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> 
> 
> 
> 





Received on Monday, 16 December 2013 16:53:55 UTC

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