Re: Issue-89, proposal 3: Duplication of triples & inferencing

Hi Henry,

Let me try to reiterate the use case we've discussed.

On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
wrote:
>
>
> On 12 Dec 2013, at 19:20, Arnaud Le Hors <lehors@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> > While true, it's been pointed out before, several times, that this
would fall short of addressing the use case at hand: allowing one to define
a container over existing data by leveraging a domain specific vocabulary.
>
> I am not sure I understand. The use case is I suppose that one should
> be able to publish existing data using LDP. It can't be a requirement
> to publish the data in an LDPC in particular.
>
> It seems obvious that one can publish any data in an LDPR ( that is not
> an LDPC of course ). So the use case is satisfied anyway.
>
> Can anyone explain in particular why the data MUST be placed in an
> LDPC?

Because that how my model structured being part of a container-like
structure, prior to LDP spec, and I want to apply LDP to it.  I shouldn't
need to setup a LDPC to the side of my model but apply to it.  Take example
6 from the primer[1], it is an example of this.  Additional context is that
there are a number of data sources that expose similar models (servers
emitting Linked Data resources).  So basically it has membership predicate
bt:hasBug, you can infer ldp:xyz from it.  Using the approach Henry
outlined below it opposite what I need.  I already know the membership
triples.

We've already cover this use case quite a bit.  I believe for
DirectContainers, the ldp:xyz could be inferred for those clients that need
it.  Instead of requiring that burden on all servers to explicitly produce
these (c, ldp:xyz, mr) triples that are very simple for those clients that
need it to produce it.

[1] - https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/tip/ldp-primer/ldp-primer.html

 - Steve Speicher

>
>
> > It's this new relationship that should be inferred.
> > --
> > Arnaud  Le Hors - Software Standards Architect - IBM Software Group
> >
> >
> > Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net> wrote on 12/12/2013 09:27:28 AM:
> >
> > > From: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
> > > To: Linked Data Platform WG <public-ldp-wg@w3.org>,
> > > Date: 12/12/2013 09:31 AM
> > > Subject: Issue-89, proposal 3: Duplication of triples & inferencing
> > >
> > > Part 3 of Issue-89 creates a relation ldp:propertiesOnlyResource
> > > to allow an LDPC to point in its header to the "membership
properties".
> > > The reason for this is to avoid so called duplication of triples.
> > >
> > > The duplication of triples is an issue mostly for the
> > > ldp:DirectContainer as is visible for a container such
> > > as the following
> > >
> > > <> a ldp:DirectContainer;
> > >         ldp:containerResource <>;
> > >         ldp:containsRelation m:manages;
> > >     ldp:xyz <doc1>, <doc2>, <doc3> ;
> > >     m:manages <doc1>, <doc2>, <doc3> .
> > >
> > > ( I am using ldp:xyz for what alexander in ISSUE-89 calls
> > >   ldp:contains. You can replace it without loss here and
> > >   throughout this e-mail. )
> > >
> > > But according to the rule such as the one used in the Membership wiki
[1]
> > > it would be very easy to determine the "membership triples" using only
> > > the ldp:xyz relations
> > >
> > > PREFIX ldp: <http://www.w3.org/ns/ldp#>
> > >
> > > CONSTRUCT { ?subject ?predicate ?object }
> > > WHERE {
> > >    ?ldpc a ldp:DirectContainer;
> > >         ldp:containerResource ?subject;
> > >         ldp:containsRelation ?predicate;
> > >
> > >    ?ldpc ldp:xyz ?document .
> > >    BIND (?document AS ?object)                             # the
> > > POSTed resource is the member
> > >  } UNION {
> > >    ?ldpc a ldp:DirectContainer;
> > >         ldp:containerResource ?object;
> > >         ldp:containedByRelation ?predicate.                   #
> > > ldp:containedByRelation is used
> > >
> > >    ?ldpc ldp:xyz ?document .
> > >    BIND (?document AS ?object)
> > >  }
> > > }
> > >
> > > In that case duplication is not a problem at all,
> > > since a client could just infer the "membership triples"
> > > from the ldp:xyz ones using that query.
> > >
> > > On the other hand if such a rule is not true, and cannot
> > > be written out, then there is no duplication, since the
> > > "membership triples" are in fact different triples, and
> > > have no necessary relation to the ldp:xyz ones.
> > >
> > > But then this does give one a good reason for having them in a
> > > different possibly server managed resource.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [1]in the Membership wiki "Determining the membership  triples to be
> > > added when a new member
> > > is created"  http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/
> > >
Membership#Determining_the_membership_triples_to_be_added_when_a_new_member_is_created
> > >
> > >
> > > Social Web Architect
> > > http://bblfish.net/
> > >
> > >
>
> Social Web Architect
> http://bblfish.net/
>
>