Re: is linked data about RDF or EAV or just structured data?

Err. I must admit not to be sure where you're going with that question.

Rather than trying to paraphrase the charter and risking to introduce some 
inconsistency I would say that the answer to your question is in the very 
text you quoted. :-)
--
Arnaud  Le Hors - Co-chair of the LDP WG


"Reza B'Far (Oracle)" <reza.bfar@oracle.com> wrote on 08/07/2012 10:50:21 
AM:

> From: "Reza B'Far (Oracle)" <reza.bfar@oracle.com>
> To: public-ldp-wg@w3.org, 
> Date: 08/07/2012 10:53 AM
> Subject: Re: is linked data about RDF or EAV or just structured data?
> 
> Arnaud -
> 
> I read RDF in the charter and your email (as well as others) as the 
> literal meaning of the RDF spec which is the superset of RDF data 
> model, RDF/XML, etc. (everything here - http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/
> REC-rdf-schema-20040210/)
> 
> So, I'm trying to reconcile what you referred to in your email about
> the charter (http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/charter) with RDF spec (
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-rdf-schema-20040210/).  To that end, 
> it would be EXTREMELY helpful [I would deem necessary, but that 
> would need consensus as you've pointed out] if the the refinement 
> you've put in your email becomes explicit: that the dependency is on
> the part of RDF set of specifications which represents the data 
> model versus the other stuff (RDF/XML, etc.).
> 
> Here is a question that I have during reconciliation -
> Charter says: " RDF, the Resource Description Framework, is a W3C 
Recommended
> general technique for conveying information. It has a handful of 
> syntaxes, including RDF/XML, RDFa, and Turtle, any of which can be 
> used to transmit RDF statements. The items about which information 
> is expressed in RDF documents are identified with URIs (eg, http://
> example.com/products/Widget-71) but the existing RDF specifications 
> do not cover dereferencing them. RDF is the basis for Linked Data and 
> the Semantic Web. "
> What is "RDF" above?  Just the data model (abstractions and concepts
> of triples, etc.)? or does that include other things including RDF\XML? 
> 
> Regards
> 
> On 8/7/12 9:52 AM, Arnaud Le Hors wrote:
> Reza, 
> 
> I think we would gain from setting some common terminology we all 
> use consistently so we can better understand each other. 
> 
> It seems that when you write "RDF" you mean the RDF/XML format, is 
> that correct? 
> 
> When I say RDF, I mean the RDF data model, which can be serialized 
> using a variety of formats, including RDF/XML, Turtle, and others. 
> I think this is consistent with the way the W3C uses the term, even 
> though it's true that many still confuses RDF and RDF/XML because of
> the initial introduction of RDF via the RDF/XML format. 
> 
> This being said, the charter is clear about the dependency on RDF - 
> the data model -, while recognizing the existence of the various 
> formats. In that context, the RDF WG is working on a JSON format for
> RDF and I certainly expect the LDP to allow for the use of that format. 
> 
> At the same time, I don't expect this WG to try and define a ubber 
> platform that would address all possible data models. 
> 
> I hope that helps.
> --
> Arnaud  Le Hors - Co-chair of the LDP WG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From:        "Reza B'Far (Oracle)" <reza.bfar@oracle.com> 
> To:        public-ldp-wg@w3.org, 
> Date:        08/07/2012 08:40 AM 
> Subject:        Re: is linked data about RDF or EAV or just structured 
data? 
> 
> 
> 
> Arnaud -
> 
> Thanks for clarifying the W3C procedures.  Questions - 
> 1.        When I read the charter, it is not clear that anything 
> outside of RDF is explicitly excluded.  For example, it is not clear
> that you could not use JSON, simply that RDF must be an option.  Are
> you saying that usage of RDF is explicitly made the goal by charter 
> and that similar representations of triples must be explicitly 
> forbidden to be used with the standard? 
> 2.        If the discussion is about RDF being optional versus 
> required, I don't see that at odds with the charter.  Can you 
pleaseclarify? 
> Clearly, forming another working group or community group is not 
> productive.  So, the way I'm reading your email, in a more straight 
> forward way, it means that "welcome, you're new and don't understand
> that we're already far enough that we're requiring RDF to be part of
> the standard".  I'm fine with that.  I just want to understand it 
> very clearly that the charter is explicitly excluding other 
> representations of triples, etc. than RDF. and that, furthermore, 
> the charter requires usage of mechanisms in RDF to build the 
> specific requirements in Linked Data. 
> Your clarification is appreciated. 
> Regards. 
> 
> On 8/7/12 8:03 AM, Arnaud Le Hors wrote: 
> Hi Reza, 
> 
> I'm not sure what exactly you'd like to vote on but I'd like to 
> remind everyone of a few procedural points: 
> 
> 1. W3C thrives to build consensus. For that reason, decisions are 
> only made by votes as a last resort, which isn't to say that we 
> can't have polls to get a feeling of where people stand. 
> 
> 2. WGs aren't at liberty to redefine their scope. No vote can change
> that other than that of the Advisory Council after due process. 
> 
> The LDP charter is clear about the fact the Linked Data Platform 
> this WG is to define is about RDF, using IBM's submission as the 
> starting point. [1] 
> 
> So, while I find the discussion interesting, I have to say that If 
> some of you are interested in defining a higher level type of 
> platform that is independent of the RDF data model you should look 
> to start a different group. The W3C now provides for Community 
> Groups [2] that can be easily started. 
> 
> Regards. 
> 
> [1] http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/charter 
> [2] http://www.w3.org/community/about/#cg
> --
> Arnaud  Le Hors - Co-chair of the LDP WG
> 
> 
> "Reza B'far" <reza.bfar@oracle.com> wrote on 08/07/2012 07:40:06 AM:
> 
> > From: "Reza B'far" <reza.bfar@oracle.com> 
> > To: "Wilde, Erik" <Erik.Wilde@emc.com>, 
> > Cc: "public-ldp-wg@w3.org" <public-ldp-wg@w3.org>, Kingsley Idehen 
> > <kidehen@openlinksw.com> 
> > Date: 08/07/2012 07:46 AM 
> > Subject: Re: is linked data about RDF or EAV or just structured data? 
> > 
> > Folks 
> > 
> > How about we put some of these to vote as individual axioms?  So, of
> > the group agrees, I'll send out individual proposals for axioms that
> > will have 1-2 sentences and folks can vote with the traditional 
+1/-1/0?
> > 
> > I think such axioms can give us the proper technical constraints 
> > around the use-cases if approved
> > 
> > Best
> > 
> > On Aug 7, 2012, at 7:30 AM, "Wilde, Erik" <Erik.Wilde@emc.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > hello kingsley.
> > > 
> > > On 2012-08-07 16:17 , "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com> 
wrote:
> > >> Modulo RDF re. your comments above, since it isn't a format, a 
media
> > >> type still boils down to an entity-attribute-value or 
attribute=value
> > >> structure i.e., 3-tuple or 2-tuple. It just documents the fact in 
prose
> > >> as part of the mime type.
> > > 
> > > i really don' understand how you get to this conclusion. look at the 
IETF
> > > registry of media types and you'll see an amazingly wide array of 
all
> > > kinds of models and metamodels people have registered. you find 
trees,
> > > maybe jeni has even bothered to register her LMNL "overlapping tree"
> > > format, and all kinds of more generalized or more specialized data 
models.
> > > what brings you to the conclusion that media types are in one 
ofthese two
> > > simple classes you are listing? the media type world is so much more
> > > colorful than that.
> > > 
> > > i guess i'll stop wasting mailing list bandwidth for now, since 
you're
> > > going to be on vacation and nobody else seems to get engaged in this
> > > debate anyway. i am still failing to see, though, where those 
assertions
> > > you are making are coming from, and for my personal vocabulary 
management,
> > > i'll conclude that
> > > 
> > > - there is the "Linked Data is based on RDF" perspective which is 
shared
> > > by most people, then
> > > - there's the "linked data is just data that's linked on the web"
> > > perspective of ashok that i also had for a while, and then
> > > - there's your "Linked Data is not RDF, but EAV" perspective, that 
is not
> > > something i had heard of before.
> > > 
> > > cheers,
> > > 
> > > dret.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> >