- From: Arnaud Le Hors <lehors@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 11:13:00 -0700
- To: reza.bfar@oracle.com
- Cc: public-ldp-wg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <OF195F9DF8.4D3D72AD-ON88257A53.0063C214-88257A53.00641282@us.ibm.com>
Err. I must admit not to be sure where you're going with that question. Rather than trying to paraphrase the charter and risking to introduce some inconsistency I would say that the answer to your question is in the very text you quoted. :-) -- Arnaud Le Hors - Co-chair of the LDP WG "Reza B'Far (Oracle)" <reza.bfar@oracle.com> wrote on 08/07/2012 10:50:21 AM: > From: "Reza B'Far (Oracle)" <reza.bfar@oracle.com> > To: public-ldp-wg@w3.org, > Date: 08/07/2012 10:53 AM > Subject: Re: is linked data about RDF or EAV or just structured data? > > Arnaud - > > I read RDF in the charter and your email (as well as others) as the > literal meaning of the RDF spec which is the superset of RDF data > model, RDF/XML, etc. (everything here - http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/ > REC-rdf-schema-20040210/) > > So, I'm trying to reconcile what you referred to in your email about > the charter (http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/charter) with RDF spec ( > http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-rdf-schema-20040210/). To that end, > it would be EXTREMELY helpful [I would deem necessary, but that > would need consensus as you've pointed out] if the the refinement > you've put in your email becomes explicit: that the dependency is on > the part of RDF set of specifications which represents the data > model versus the other stuff (RDF/XML, etc.). > > Here is a question that I have during reconciliation - > Charter says: " RDF, the Resource Description Framework, is a W3C Recommended > general technique for conveying information. It has a handful of > syntaxes, including RDF/XML, RDFa, and Turtle, any of which can be > used to transmit RDF statements. The items about which information > is expressed in RDF documents are identified with URIs (eg, http:// > example.com/products/Widget-71) but the existing RDF specifications > do not cover dereferencing them. RDF is the basis for Linked Data and > the Semantic Web. " > What is "RDF" above? Just the data model (abstractions and concepts > of triples, etc.)? or does that include other things including RDF\XML? > > Regards > > On 8/7/12 9:52 AM, Arnaud Le Hors wrote: > Reza, > > I think we would gain from setting some common terminology we all > use consistently so we can better understand each other. > > It seems that when you write "RDF" you mean the RDF/XML format, is > that correct? > > When I say RDF, I mean the RDF data model, which can be serialized > using a variety of formats, including RDF/XML, Turtle, and others. > I think this is consistent with the way the W3C uses the term, even > though it's true that many still confuses RDF and RDF/XML because of > the initial introduction of RDF via the RDF/XML format. > > This being said, the charter is clear about the dependency on RDF - > the data model -, while recognizing the existence of the various > formats. In that context, the RDF WG is working on a JSON format for > RDF and I certainly expect the LDP to allow for the use of that format. > > At the same time, I don't expect this WG to try and define a ubber > platform that would address all possible data models. > > I hope that helps. > -- > Arnaud Le Hors - Co-chair of the LDP WG > > > > > From: "Reza B'Far (Oracle)" <reza.bfar@oracle.com> > To: public-ldp-wg@w3.org, > Date: 08/07/2012 08:40 AM > Subject: Re: is linked data about RDF or EAV or just structured data? > > > > Arnaud - > > Thanks for clarifying the W3C procedures. Questions - > 1. When I read the charter, it is not clear that anything > outside of RDF is explicitly excluded. For example, it is not clear > that you could not use JSON, simply that RDF must be an option. Are > you saying that usage of RDF is explicitly made the goal by charter > and that similar representations of triples must be explicitly > forbidden to be used with the standard? > 2. If the discussion is about RDF being optional versus > required, I don't see that at odds with the charter. Can you pleaseclarify? > Clearly, forming another working group or community group is not > productive. So, the way I'm reading your email, in a more straight > forward way, it means that "welcome, you're new and don't understand > that we're already far enough that we're requiring RDF to be part of > the standard". I'm fine with that. I just want to understand it > very clearly that the charter is explicitly excluding other > representations of triples, etc. than RDF. and that, furthermore, > the charter requires usage of mechanisms in RDF to build the > specific requirements in Linked Data. > Your clarification is appreciated. > Regards. > > On 8/7/12 8:03 AM, Arnaud Le Hors wrote: > Hi Reza, > > I'm not sure what exactly you'd like to vote on but I'd like to > remind everyone of a few procedural points: > > 1. W3C thrives to build consensus. For that reason, decisions are > only made by votes as a last resort, which isn't to say that we > can't have polls to get a feeling of where people stand. > > 2. WGs aren't at liberty to redefine their scope. No vote can change > that other than that of the Advisory Council after due process. > > The LDP charter is clear about the fact the Linked Data Platform > this WG is to define is about RDF, using IBM's submission as the > starting point. [1] > > So, while I find the discussion interesting, I have to say that If > some of you are interested in defining a higher level type of > platform that is independent of the RDF data model you should look > to start a different group. The W3C now provides for Community > Groups [2] that can be easily started. > > Regards. > > [1] http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/charter > [2] http://www.w3.org/community/about/#cg > -- > Arnaud Le Hors - Co-chair of the LDP WG > > > "Reza B'far" <reza.bfar@oracle.com> wrote on 08/07/2012 07:40:06 AM: > > > From: "Reza B'far" <reza.bfar@oracle.com> > > To: "Wilde, Erik" <Erik.Wilde@emc.com>, > > Cc: "public-ldp-wg@w3.org" <public-ldp-wg@w3.org>, Kingsley Idehen > > <kidehen@openlinksw.com> > > Date: 08/07/2012 07:46 AM > > Subject: Re: is linked data about RDF or EAV or just structured data? > > > > Folks > > > > How about we put some of these to vote as individual axioms? So, of > > the group agrees, I'll send out individual proposals for axioms that > > will have 1-2 sentences and folks can vote with the traditional +1/-1/0? > > > > I think such axioms can give us the proper technical constraints > > around the use-cases if approved > > > > Best > > > > On Aug 7, 2012, at 7:30 AM, "Wilde, Erik" <Erik.Wilde@emc.com> wrote: > > > > > hello kingsley. > > > > > > On 2012-08-07 16:17 , "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote: > > >> Modulo RDF re. your comments above, since it isn't a format, a media > > >> type still boils down to an entity-attribute-value or attribute=value > > >> structure i.e., 3-tuple or 2-tuple. It just documents the fact in prose > > >> as part of the mime type. > > > > > > i really don' understand how you get to this conclusion. look at the IETF > > > registry of media types and you'll see an amazingly wide array of all > > > kinds of models and metamodels people have registered. you find trees, > > > maybe jeni has even bothered to register her LMNL "overlapping tree" > > > format, and all kinds of more generalized or more specialized data models. > > > what brings you to the conclusion that media types are in one ofthese two > > > simple classes you are listing? the media type world is so much more > > > colorful than that. > > > > > > i guess i'll stop wasting mailing list bandwidth for now, since you're > > > going to be on vacation and nobody else seems to get engaged in this > > > debate anyway. i am still failing to see, though, where those assertions > > > you are making are coming from, and for my personal vocabulary management, > > > i'll conclude that > > > > > > - there is the "Linked Data is based on RDF" perspective which is shared > > > by most people, then > > > - there's the "linked data is just data that's linked on the web" > > > perspective of ashok that i also had for a while, and then > > > - there's your "Linked Data is not RDF, but EAV" perspective, that is not > > > something i had heard of before. > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > > dret. > > > > > > > > > >
Received on Tuesday, 7 August 2012 18:14:34 UTC