Re: Question about JSON-LD: @type in expanded term definitions in @context

Dear Graham,

sorry, this email has been sitting in my inbox for a while...

Re. mentioning type coercion in the description of the `@type` keyword:
Well, type coercion is mostly about the "datatype" interpretation of @type,
since its effect is to "convert" a plain JSON string to a value object with
the given @type -- with the exception of "@type": "@id"/"@vocab", which
converts it to a node object *without a @type*. Some people find this
confusing and have been quite vocal about it. So mentioning type coercion
in this context would increase the confusion, I'm affraid...

Re. "typed value" vs. "value object", both terms link to their respective
definition everytime they are used in the document (if they don't, that's a
bug)

 best

[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11/#dfn-typed-value

On Wed, 12 Jun 2019 at 08:43, Graham Klyne <gk@ninebynine.org> wrote:

> Dear Pierre-Antoine,
>
> Thank you for this - it helps :)
>
> In this response, I'll offer proposals for making this clearer...
>
> (My immediate goal here is to suggest something that I could point to,
> which
> makes it clear the problematic use I came across is not in accordance with
> the
> spec.)
>
> On 11/06/2019 17:29, Pierre-Antoine Champin wrote:
> > Dear Graham,
> >
> > On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 17:51, Graham Klyne <gk@ninebynine.org> wrote:
> > (...)
> >
> >> In RDF, I think your "datatype of any string" would have to refer to an
> >> RDF
> >> literal node, which is a distinct from a URI node (or blank node).  My
> >> sense,
> >> but it's not something I am finding clearly stated, is that when an
> >> "expanded
> >> term" with a @type IRI is used, the corresponding JSON-LD corresponds to
> >> an RDF
> >> statement with a literal node as its object, with the data type of that
> >> node
> >> indicated by the given IRI.  In the presence of such a @type IRI, I
> don't
> >> think
> >> the JSON-LD can map to an RDF statement with a URI node.
> >>
> >
> > correct.
> >
> >>
> >> I think the only way to use an expanded term to create the equivalent of
> >> an RDF
> >> statement with a URI node object is to use a "@type" value of "@id" in
> the
> >> expanded term definition.
> >>
> >
> > actually, it also works with a "@type" value of "@vocab",
> > but you got the general idea, yes.
> >
> > This is described in the 'Type coercion' section of the spec (
> > https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11/#type-coercion),
> > which starts with
>
> Aha!
>
> >
> >> JSON-LD supports the coercion of string values to particular data types
> >
> > then a little further down:
> >
> >> Alternatively, the keyword @id or @vocab may be used as value
> >> to indicate that within the body of a JSON-LD document,
> >> a string value of a term coerced to @id or @vocab is to be interpreted
> as
> > an IRI.
> >
> > I know it is always easier when you know where to look... Where else do
> you
> > think this should be emphasized?
> >
> > Also, just to be clear: type coercion in a term definition only applies
> to
> > simple JSON strings. It is always possible to override that by using an
> > explicit node object (to create an IRI) or value object (to create a
> > literal). See this example: http://tinyurl.com/y2lghv3f
> >
> > Finally, regarding the double meaning of @type in the data,
> > we have put a note about that in the definition of the @type keyword,
> > under https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11/#syntax-tokens-and-keywords .
>
> I think this helps, as it draws attention to the dual-use.  I don't think
> the
> justification is really needed, but it would help to mention its use in
> expanded
> term definitions; e.g. I might suggest some thing like this:
>
> [[
> NOTE
>
> The @type keyword is used to define a type for both [node objects] and
> [value
> objects], and addresses the basic need to type data, be it a literal value
> or a
> more complicated resource.  It may also be used with an [expanded term
> definition], where it indicates a type for an associated [typed value], as
> described for [type coercion].
> ]]
>
>
> I note that "type coercion" talks about "typed value", where the @type
> note
> refers to "value object".  I see these are different, but related, but
> wonder if
> this may not be immediately obvious to a casual reader.  Maybe add
> something
> like this to the glossary entry for "Value object":
>
> [[
> A value object with a @type member represents a [typed value].
> ]]
>
> (Technically, when mapped to RDF (per 1.1), I think that idea would also
> apply
> without the @type keyword as RDF bare literals are now typed as xsd:string
> - but
> I'm not sure that notion applies to the JSON-LD model.)
>
> #g
> --
>
>