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Re: Optimistic over Universal

From: Tax Map <elusio@taxmap.it>
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:24:53 +0100
Message-ID: <CAJ0yri_pOzjddgBR3LY9yJjbdRuqP9zhOt=UV31BSTFfguMbJQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Timothy Benest <thb@enteracc.ch>
Cc: Andrew Bransford Brown <andrewbb@gmail.com>, Evan Schwartz <evan@ripple.com>, Interledger Community Group <public-interledger@w3.org>
@Timothy Something I'm working on 👍


Mr Elusio Alcalde - Founder


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On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Timothy Benest <thb@enteracc.ch> wrote:

> I need to spend some time looking in detail at how InterLedger implements
> things, but my first impressions are that it does not use a Double Entry
> model.
> Maybe everyone involved should take a basic bookkeeping course. Learn
> Debit vs Credit. Learn that every Nostro (My Account with you) needs a
> Vostro (Your Account with US).
> This is very important stuff in making sure the "Books Balance". Some big
> company failures have been down to the fact that basic bookkeeping was
> ignored in favour of someone trying to re-invent the wheel of double entry.
> Enough for now, I need to go back to FATCA and CRS reporting.
> Regards
> Tim Benest
> General Manager
> *EnterAcc S.A.*
> eMail    : thb@enteracc.ch
> Tel      : +41 22 550 8965 <+41%2022%20550%2089%2065> (Switzerland)
>          : +1 869 469 0955 <(869)%20469-0955> (Nevis)
> Telegram : @tbenest
> Skype    : tbenest
> EnterAcc S.A.
> C.P. 1436
> Rue de Berne 11
> 1211 Genève 1
> Suisse
> On 29 June 2017 at 13:25, Andrew Bransford Brown <andrewbb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Sending cash and hoping it gets there?
>> Please find some people who know what they're doing.  IT people don't
>> understand law or money.
>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Evan Schwartz <evan@ripple.com> wrote:
>>> TL;DR: We can implement Optimistic Mode on top of normal Interledger by
>>> using a well-known hash (and preimage) to indicate it's Optimistic.
>>> *What is Optimistic Mode?*
>>> Sending Interledger payments without a condition and timeout. You need
>>> to trust the connectors all the way through but that may be acceptable for
>>> payments with very low amounts or if connectors turn out to be honest and
>>> reliable in practice. The advantage is simplicity, the fact that you don't
>>> need any setup step at all, and it removes the backwards trip for the
>>> fulfillment.
>>> Earlier we thought that Optimistic, Universal, and Atomic would be the
>>> Interledger Transport Layer (that's why there are the placeholder RFCs 5-7
>>> for them). However, we realized they were not really end-to-end and
>>> required substantially different features from all of the intermediary
>>> nodes. So we took out support for optimistic mode and said the core
>>> Interledger protocol just uses Universal mode.
>>> *Optimistic for Streaming Payments*
>>> Last week Michiel reminded me of the idea that Optimistic mode may be
>>> preferable for streaming payments. (Paraphrasing his comments:) They are
>>> simpler, you're keeping the amounts low anyway, and the receiver can
>>> communicate out of band whether they've received the money. Using
>>> Optimistic payments would also make ILP resemble IP's best effort delivery
>>> of packets a lot more.
>>> *Implementing Optimistic Mode Using a Well-Known Hash*
>>> The Interledger.js implementation now requires all transfers to have
>>> execution conditions and so it no longer supports Optimistic mode in the
>>> way we were doing it before. However, we can implement Optimistic as more
>>> of a proper Transport Layer protocol (that may or may not have support from
>>> the underlying network).
>>> When sending Optimistic payments you would set the condition to a
>>> well-known hash defined in the spec. Ledger plugins that support this
>>> protocol would recognize that hash and immediately execute those transfers
>>> (maybe skipping the prepare step). For plugins that don't support the
>>> protocol, connectors could immediately execute the incoming transfer.
>>> Connectors wouldn't need to do anything when they get the notification that
>>> the outgoing transfer has been executed. On the receiving side, you might
>>> want to configure the plugin to enable optimistic mode, if it supports it,
>>> and if the plugin doesn't provide support than the client can auto-fulfill
>>> all of the incoming transfers.
>>> By implementing Optimistic in this way, we can make it an end-to-end
>>> protocol that may optionally have support from the underlying network but
>>> works fine without it as well.
>>> PS I had the idea earlier that if you want to implement messaging on top
>>> of ledger transfers you could use a well-known condition that nobody can
>>> fulfill like the string "messagemessagemessagemessagemessagemessagem=".
>>> There may be other types of protocols that could be implemented using the
>>> idea of well-known conditions.
>>> --
>>> Evan Schwartz
>>> Software Engineer
>>> Managing Director of Ripple Luxembourg
Received on Friday, 30 June 2017 10:34:14 UTC

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