W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-interledger@w3.org > July 2016

Re: holding of funds

From: Andrew Bransford Brown <andrewbb@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2016 16:11:01 -0500
Message-ID: <CAPS+YFJbm=G+sYEyy09u7+FL3ZG8QmJoZkvZyPZyjo5FodOQwA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Javier Romero <elmurci@gmail.com>, public-interledger@w3.org
That is the reason we need a standard protocol.  Those examples are all
internal functions of the application.

A protocol defines the interface, but does not decide implementation.  The
Deliver event might be Bitcoin, dollars, or any good/service.  The protocol
should verify that delivery was made and accepted, regardless of

For example, I haven't decided how to handle 3rd party escrow services.
Note the complexity of the legal contract:

CommerceID     EventType         Description
Javier         Terms-Escrow      ABC Escrow
Andrew         Accept
Computer       Notice            "This is a binding contract, dependent on
ABC Escrow's acceptance."

ABC Escrow     Accept
Computer       Notice            "This is a 3-party legal contract."

Javier         Deliver           Lasagna
Andrew         Deliver           $25

ABC Escrow     Deliver           Lasagna
ABC Escrow     Deliver           $25

Computer       Notice            "Contract complete."

NOTE:  The "Deliver" destinations can be determined entirely via algorithm.

Andrew B. Brown
10723 River Plantation Drive
Austin, Texas  78747
(512) 947-8282

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Javier Romero <elmurci@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for your responses Andrew!
> My question was more if rather than just failing the transaction other
> alternatives had been explored when a legacy ledger doesn't have the
> capability of *holding/authorise temporarily* funds and just admits
> confirmed transactions...
> I guess a plugin sitting on top of the ledger could decide depending on
> the situation:
> - If less than a certain value, accept the transaction even if it leaves a
> negative balance
> - Use a 3rd party escrow for high values
> - Just fail the transaction if needed if conditions are not met.
> - Write a debit movement on the way out and then a credit movement if the
> payment fails on the way back.
> - ...
> On 24 July 2016 at 15:30, Andrew Bransford Brown <andrewbb@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> The "Deliver" event would not occur, of course.  You could write an event
>> to the "transaction stack":
>> CommerceID     EventType         Description
>> Andrew         Deliver-Failure   "Insufficient funds"
>> The API could include a GetContractStatus(transactionID) that would
>> return ""Undelivered", "Open", or "Partial delivery", or similar.  It would
>> be up to the application to determine who ships/delivers first.
>> Andrew B. Brown
>> 10723 River Plantation Drive
>> Austin, Texas  78747
>> (512) 947-8282
>> http://linkedin.com/in/keihatsu
>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 5:51 AM, Javier Romero <elmurci@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks Andrew,
>>> But you would still need some kind of funds holding?
>>> What would happen if, in your example, Andrew doesn't have enough
>>> balance of funds at the time the transaction is executed?
>>> On 24 July 2016 at 02:02, Andrew Bransford Brown <andrewbb@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Javier, good questions.
>>>> I think the following can be useful for separating implementation from
>>>> protocol.  This conforms to contract law.  Your questions pertain to the
>>>> "Deliver" event:
>>>> *CommerceID EventType Description*
>>>> Andrew     Offer     $20
>>>> Andrew     Terms     Lasagna
>>>> Computer   Notice    "This is an open legal binding offer."
>>>> Christine  Terms     $25
>>>> Andrew     Accept
>>>> Computer   Notice    "This is a binding legal contract."
>>>> Christine  Deliver   Lasagna
>>>> Andrew     Deliver   $20
>>>> Computer   Notice    "Contract complete."
>>>> The above forms what I call a "transaction stack" of events.  So, it
>>>> functions as a data structure, a protocol, and potentially a Contract
>>>> Scripting Language (CSL).  Each event would have a "snippet" to form a
>>>> smart contract.  It will handle any transaction in any currency (or
>>>> barter).  I think this can get ALL ledgers to talk the same language (easy
>>>> to roll this into debits/credits).
>>>> FYI, I have 20+ years of IT executive and design experience, a degree
>>>> in Accounting, and a stock trading background.  Comments would be
>>>> appreciated.
>>>> Andrew B. Brown
>>>> 10723 River Plantation Drive
>>>> Austin, Texas  78747
>>>> (512) 947-8282
>>>> http://linkedin.com/in/keihatsu
>>>> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Romero, Javier (ISBANUK) <
>>>> Javier.RomeroColomo@isbanuk.com> wrote:
>>>>> When the legacy ledger does not have the capability of holding funds,
>>>>> what would be the proposed solution?
>>>>>    - Assume the risk in the same way as an offline card transaction
>>>>>    (depending on amount etc...)?
>>>>>    - Get the balance at the moment of sending the instruction and
>>>>>    then, on the way back where all the crypto conditions have been met apply
>>>>>    the transfer if there are funds or fail it in case there aren't?
>>>>>    - 3rd party escrow?
>>>>> I guess each case needs assessment but wanted to see if you guys have
>>>>> a clear view in this.
>>>>> Thanks
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Received on Sunday, 24 July 2016 21:11:30 UTC

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