IndieUI Minutes for July 10, 2013

Posted on behalf of Katie, who's having problems trying to post ...




Please find the still poorly spelled DRAFT links below of the IndieUI
Minutes for July 10, 2013. Plain text version (with spelling corrected)
follows the links in this email.



Action Items:

IRC Log:



Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference

10 Jul 2013


Present: +1.412.901.aaaa, Michael_Cooper, Andy_Heath, Rich_Simpson,
+1.703.861.aabb, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Janina_Sajka, Jason_White, Rich,
Rich_Schwerdtfeger, James_Craig

Regrets: None

Chair: Janina_Sajka

Scribe: Ryladog (Katie Haritos-Shea)


Editor's Update

TPAC2013  <>

... You need visas, means visiting a consulate office and surrendering your
Passport for several week. You need to prepare. There is page, a hotel with
block of rooms
... Can you help with that the hotel sign up information is not accessible.
The hotel looks like a compound

RS; is this a jail?

JS: No , it is where the Chinese take their foreign guests
... In terms of flight I have suggested Hong Kong there is a border between
you need another visa for that. There is a ChenChen Airport that you can get
to from Japan without the multiple Visas

Katie: I will share my flight info with Janina so we might go together

Testing Events Discussion

JC: I got 2 of the 3 I said that wanted to finished done. It was a bit more
complicated. Should have by this weekend

JS: It will be a 7 day

JC: Within 7 days I will be a father by next Wednesday. I am working
frantically to catch up. I plan to be off of work for about a month

JS; Our plan is that you will have that 3rd item checked in

JS: Once we see it we will issue a Call for Consensus before the next call
if possible

JC: The call was the last one.

User Context Requirements: next steps

JS: It couldn't be issues next week because Shawn Henry is away, because she
is the public relations - so it will be the week following that
... There has been some very good conversation off-list that maybe should be
put on list. Can we get some of that on the list so others can see it.
Testing is important and we want to start that early

MC: We talked about test harness that the W#C is under development that may
provide the features we need. Self-executable self-made tests will be
relevant for IndieUI
... They develop self-executing web-based scripts
... If we determine that this is possible or not viable with the current
technology - if not we will have to d manual testing
... It might be better suited to do manual testing. I know Rich has been
doing research on his own

JW: Is designed for automated testing to sunhesei automated test and the
IndieUI to dispatch event
... I think you could also use the Harness if you register the event and do
something remote to generate event san reports
... This could cover a number of Working Group test suites. DOM Events',
Pointer Events that are important to us
... that is where we are, but we need to find out from the implementer what
they are going to do to trigger the events so that will give us the basis
for our Testing Plan

JS: Implementers that normally attend are from Apple
... Is IBM and implementer

RS: Yes, but, too swamped by ARIA at the moment...

JS: Maybe James can tell us more of what would be in a DRAFT event.
... I think our last call will be 90 days

J: Then the Candidate Recommendation - and that is all about PROVING that it
is implementable - by having 2 implementations

JS: Normally that would not happen until the end of last call
... I see no problem with us starting the testing - what Are test cases are
and. If we had that already early that would be great. But that would be
overly optimistic

JW: We do not know who else is actually writing anything - that will
influence the time line and the spec
... They will come up with issue as they proceed

JS: That will give us an idea of how long it will take

JC: We are adding automated tests for every feature that we have to Web Kit
- I hope the other implementer s will f=do the same

JCL In the WebKit resources we have Indie UI - mother browser vendors could
start with that - they would need to change them a bit

JW: They are testing the same thing on the client side for the AAPI

Katie: am I on?

MC: We would have to find them ourselves anyway

JC: Why can't we just associate each test in each user agent

MC: we need two implementations in 2 browsers
... If we don't have the test cases in our info we do not know which test
cases map to
... We need to have defined test statements

RS: The actual content has to be the same
... The intent is to run test that will work across multiple browsers
... What are you testing to know that it works. Native? I am not quite sure


JC: I will give you an example


JC: This directory in the Web kit tests whether or not the type and
cancellable. Functions that should be true that re specific to WebKit
requester files

JW: Could somebody take that and rewrite it generic to run on the W3C test

JC: Yes

JS: That is what the W3C is about generic

MCL We not necessarily

MC: The big thing is if UA 1 has the same UA 2 information and treats it the
same way

JC: that is fair enough
... If there is a way to make these completely generic - that would be fine.
In the case of ARIA the API was platform specific

RS: I think that could be included in the test case. It is only different in
how you exercise it for various platforms?
... let's say for iOS they may have a special IA model for voice and
keyboard it may be different on an Android machine

JC: I think what Rich is asking for is we can run simulated events

JS: we do not expect every machine is going to provide the same UI - we do
expect then to be different actually
... We do expect authors to provide simplified markup

MC: We are expecting user input event is made on-click event it made
... Do we need that abstraction layer or not
... This is also important for test reporting on a platform by platform

JW: We can test at that generically at that abstract level

JS: It would certainly be a win for us if this could be automated - is that
it would allow users to test their work while developing

MC: I think someone is trying to speak but they are not getting through

JW; If we knew what 2 separate implementers were going to do it would help

JS: Chrome is also implementing. Didn't Dominic say that? Maybe we should
ping them

RS: yes

JS: Mozilla was a little less specific about it

JC: : They are probably just going to make what we did for SP which would
mean it is the same implementation

JS: That would be the same sources code with out any changes I would say no
... It has to be 2 different implementations - if the code base is
significantly different'
... Which means we really do need Mozilla or something else

RS: What if it was the same codes on the same browser on different

JS: I do not think that would be OK

JW: Again if we can find out if it is not confidential - that would help us
quite a bit

RS: Well I can reach out to the Mozilla rep on this group?

JS: I do not know that we have one

MC: We do not have one - that has joined

JS: so that may be something

RS: Microsoft just joined - we probably reach out to Mozilla

JS: I would be much more comfortable if we know Mozilla were doing this
... How many separate test case we would have in 1.0, will we have more than

JC: Possible

JS; Not the size of ARIA 700 hundred something

User Contexts: identifying AT

JS: Are we done collecting?

JW: Yes the document I had posted and was taken tp the WIKI thanks MC

we do need to obtain use cases 1 for each section at a minimum

JW: If we could come up with test cases that would be useful as well
... I did want to review the ISO requirement
... I am still waiting to get a copy of the document

AH: I will get that to you

JW: It will take it in that context
... I will consult with others on ISO 27452
... I will complete that after I read it

AH: I will post it after this call

JW: Next week is fine for me - the only thing is Use Cases to justify and
explain all that we need for the various requirements
... I think we have covered that all have proposed to the WG

AH: I will try to get you something on the Use cases
... I can write

JW: Use the same model we have

MC: I foul the Events to be over-formal
... The biggest thing is to capture the thought.

MC: I was going to go looking for something from other WG - W3C does not
have any canonical requirement s for Use cases

<scribe> ACTION: Andy Heath to provide Use Cases [recorded in

<trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Heath to provide Use Cases [on Andy Heath -
due 2013-07-17].

JW: We do not have any rationale for any of them - and I think that is very
important. If we don't have justification that will be a problem

JS: I think we will not have that conversation until James is able to retyrn

AH; My youngest is 22 and I am still doing the job

RS; Don't scare him Andy

JS: That give sus about a month anyway before we have the knock down drag
out as to what we keep and what gets thrown out

RS: How close are we to getting to what we came up with in Lyon?

<MichaelC> action-61: use cases for user context

<trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-61 Heath to provide Use Cases.

<jcraig>  <>

JC: Very close. The existing stuff for the product is here...

JC:  Which is 4 issue and 15 actions

JC: Potentially all of those would need to be done, Some are quick fixes

<MichaelC> trackbot, assocaite action-61 with product-3

<trackbot> Sorry, MichaelC, I don't understand 'trackbot, assocaite
action-61 with product-3'. Please refer to <
<>>for help.

<MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-61 with product-3

<trackbot> ACTION-61 (Heath to provide Use Cases) associated with PRODUCT-3.

JC; I think there is a potential ROLE

JC; If we didn't address marquee for this release would that be OK?

JC: If we are relying on ARIA we would fail
... We have to make clear to the rest of W3C

JS: We have always said it but I do not think it has had much uptake

JW: People who have access needs who are not using AT will not be able to
take advantage of it

RS: Are we going to update to have device independent stuff so it does not
depend on keyboard events

MC: and move the

RS: I would rather have it there too

JS:  I agree

<jcraig> s/yatake/to take/gi

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Andy Heath to provide Use Cases [recorded in
[End of minutes]






* katie *


Katie Haritos-Shea

Senior Accessibility SME (WCAG/Section 508/ADA), Compliance Solutions

Cell: +1-703-371-5545 | Desk: +1-703-596-8054 | | Washington DC Office in Arlington, VA | <>  | Risk Management and
Compliance Team |  


Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats
	Indie UI

Received on Wednesday, 10 July 2013 23:17:08 UTC