- From: Thomas Roessler <tlr@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 21:05:33 +0200
- To: public-ietf-w3c@w3.org
Archiving; it may be worth checking back on this one during the 5 June W3C/IETF liaison call. Regards, -- Thomas Roessler, W3C <tlr@w3.org> ----- Forwarded message from Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU> ----- From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@MIT.EDU> To: ietf-http-auth@lists.osafoundation.org Cc: lear@cisco.com Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 15:25:44 -0400 Subject: [Ietf-http-auth] BOF proposal: making the web safe and easy for Eliot's father List-Id: ietf-http-auth.osafoundation.org Hi. I'm putting together a proposal for a BOF at IETF 66 of phishing-safe identity for the web an other HTTP applications. I hope to have both a problem statement draft and a requirements draft about avoiding phishing attacks. These drafts will hopefully be done by May 22. I'd appreciate it if people would indicate any interest they may have in this BOF. During the DIX BOF at IETF 65, Eliot Lear tried to cut through a complicated discussion of web identity and propose a smaller subset of the problem for us to solve. he wants us to create a way for his dad to securely access websites without having multiple passwords all over the place. We spent some time trying to figure out the characteristics of Eliot's dad. Eliot's dad and users like him use the web from many computers, including computers they own, computers in businesses and computers made available to the public they have never used before. They don't understand certificates, are not going to be good at checking URL bars and certainly will not read the source of a page before logging into a website. I propose that we try and make the web safe and easy to use for Eliot's dad. To do this, I think it is critical that we present a coherent proposal for web identity management at the next IETF in response to DIX. There are two messages I'd like to send. The first is that we need to deal with phishing. The second message we want to send is that reinventing a new authentication framework is really hard and that we have technology that should be reused. So, here's my idea for a set of BOF presentations at IETF 66. First, we start out by describing the Eliot's father problem. You want to be able to use a smaller number of passwords; sometimes you only want to be able to use them from one computer, sometimes you want to be able to use them anywhere. Sometimes you provide the identity, sometimes the server provides the identity. A third party can provide the identity, but they need to be associated with either you or the site you are trying to connect to in some way. Long term you need to support more than passwords, but passwords are the important thing today. Then, we get someone to describe the phishing problem. You must never send a token that can be used by the website to impersonate you to third parties: if the website is an attacker then they can become you on the real site. Here is where Infocard, DIX, SAML bearer assertions all fail. Browsers must change; cite w3c auth workshop. You need to have some form of dynamic trusted UI. Take a look at http://www.w3.org/2005/Security/usability-ws/papers/37-google/ as a draft of some requirements in this space. show that many situations require a trusted party acting as an identity provider. Discuss how difficult designing trusted third parties are and getting them deployed. Point out that DIX and Infocard are new trusted third parties authentication systems. Desire to use technology that can scale to Internet-wide deployment. Establish following requirements for trusted third party: * Must support smart cards, SRP-like mechanisms, normal passwords, one time passwords, anything someone might use. * Must work with more than the web. Identity assertions need to travel from the web into back office systems even if those systems do not fully trust the web site as an authorizer. * Desire to share authentication with email, IM and other services. Show how much of these requirements we can meet today with existing technology to argue that using existing technology is plausible. I propose showing this based on Kerberos. Personally I think that Kerberos has a lot to offer in this space, but the important thing is to demonstrate that existing authentication frameworks are worth reusing, not to prematurely push a particular solution. I believe that if you were trying to show Kerberos in this space you could demo Kerberos working to enroll an identity in a third party identity provider. Demo using that identity to access a website from a second computer that knows nothing about the identity. Truthfully be able to assert that neither computer needed prior configuration either about the identity provider or the website. Proposed deliverables of a working group: * Requirements document describing the Eliot's father problem. * Requirements document describing what it means to have web identity that is reasonably safe from phishing. * Guidance to W3C on what information browsers will need from HTML to provide a good user experience for authentication. * An architecture document describing how the solution fits together. Unlike most IETF protocols we need to focus on UI issues as well as the low level protocol issues. While we may want the UI issues handled in W3C, I think it critical that we be working on the architecture in parallel to the UI issues so that requirements can filter in both directions. * Technical solution to binding a user-provided identity to a website. In DIX terms, a technical solution for telling a website about a homesite. This is more challenging in an environment where you care about phishing. * Technical solution for enrolling a user in a identity provider--again harder than a form asking for your new password if you care about phishing. * A GAP analysis of usability issues in the chosen authentication technology. While I think existing technologies such as Kerberos are reusable, there is work to do. In the case of Kerberos, firewall friendly transport and some realm configuration issues. In the case of X.509, lots of enrollment problems and lots of browser UI issues. --Sam _______________________________________________ Ietf-http-auth mailing list Ietf-http-auth@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ietf-http-auth ----- End forwarded message -----
Received on Tuesday, 16 May 2006 19:06:28 UTC