Re: Notes from the meeting - Re: Agenda for the ID CG meeting

Thank you Coralie, and Chaals for scribing and Judy for help managing 
the queue.


On 09/07/2020 18:15, Coralie Mercier wrote:
> 
>> On 9 Jul 2020, at 09:30 , Léonie Watson <lwatson@tetralogical.com> wrote:
>>
>> Day: Thursday 9 July 2020
>> Time: 3PM UTC (Please convert to your local time)
>>
>> 1. Finalising the statement
>> 2. Finalising the actions included in the statement
>> 3. How we can offer more support (Dan and Wendy)
>> 4. How we can make W3C more welcoming (Tzviya)
>> 5. How we can do more outreach (Judy and Barb)
>> 6. How we can do more to avoid discrimination (Tess and Judy)
>> 7. How we can share more information (Judy)
>>
>> IRC: irc.w3.org #idcg
>> Zoom:
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/internal-idcg/2020Jun/0008.html
> 
> The minutes from today’s meeting are available (thanks chaals and WendyR for scribing!):
>    https://www.w3.org/2020/07/09-idcg-minutes.html
> 
> Text version:
> =============
>                         Inclusion and Diversity CG
>         09 July 2020
> 
>     [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.
>        [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-idcg/2020Jul/0020.html
>        [3] https://www.w3.org/2020/07/09-idcg-irc
> 
> Attendees
>     Present
>            chaals, Coralie, Dan Appelquist, heathervescent, hober,
>            jeff, Judy, Killian_Downing, Léonie, melanierichards,
>            tzviya, wendyreid, wseltzer
>     Regrets
>            Florian, Vagner
>     Chair
>            Léonie
>     Scribe
>            chaals, wendyreid
> 
> Contents
>      1. [4]Finalising the statement
>      2. [5]Intros
>      3. [6]Finalising the actions included in the statement
> 
> Meeting minutes
> 
>     <koalie> [7]Previous (2020-07-02)
> 
>        [7] https://www.w3.org/2020/07/02-idcg-minutes.html
> 
>    Finalising the statement
> 
>     <tink> [8]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/proposed-statement
> 
>        [8] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/proposed-statement
> 
>     LJW: Added Judy's text summarising the actions and taking up
>     themes.
> 
>     JudyB: We should talk about status
> 
>     LJW: We are wordsmithing the statement, seems people are
>     generally happy with it except we need to finalise the set of
>     actions we would like to add - which is the next agendum
> 
>     <Zakim> wseltzer, you wanted to add "privacy" to
>     "accessibility, security, and internationalization"
> 
>     WendyS: Would you like continued edits, if so, how?
> 
>     <Judy> +1 to including privacy
> 
>     <koalie> +1
> 
>     LJW: By email is best, and I will try to work them in. Do you
>     have something specific?
> 
>     <dka_> +1
> 
>     WS: Add privacy into horizontal review areas
> 
>     LJW: Yeah we should do that live
> 
>     <hober> +1 to including privacy
> 
>     WendyR: I can do that
> 
>     DKA: What happened with Amy's comments?
> 
>     LJW: Didnt incorporate them. I disagreed with the first
>     suggestion.
> 
>     [Wendy reads out Amy's email]
> 
>     <wseltzer> [9]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/
>     internal-idcg/2020Jul/0004.html
> 
>        [9] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/internal-idcg/2020Jul/0004.html
> 
>     <wseltzer> [I thought we had previously made a different edit
>     to address that first comment, but don't see it reflected on
>     the wiki]
> 
>     WS: Are there other texts, that are getting out of synch?
> 
>     <Zakim> dka_, you wanted to ask about Amy's comments?
> 
>     LJW: I haven't seen other replies so don't think we had agreed
>     to any edits.
> 
>     WS: Thought we had already agreed to an edit that would have
>     addressed Amy's first comment.
> 
>     LJW: I thought I put up the latest agreed version on the wiki
> 
>     JudyB: I have deja vu on this too and think we had addressed
>     it. We need to do some archaeology to figure that out
> 
>     LJW: The phrase "who we are and what we do" was a change made
>     by a meeting a couple of weeks ago - is that what people are
>     thinking of?
>     … needed to talk about both us as a group of people as well as
>     the work we do, as things we would like to change.
>     … I think we are trying to acknowledge that until we have a
>     diverse community we cannot be confident that what we work on
>     actually covers the needs of everyone.
>     … please propose edits via the list.
> 
>     JeffJaffe: Amy raised some issues, Léonie you disagreed with
>     one, do we have a consensus on the call about whether we
>     recognise those issues
> 
>     LJW: Odd question, we should definitely recognise them, and
>     think the mechanism should be email.
> 
>     JJ: OK.
> 
>     Heather: Think the point of the statement is in support of
>     Black Lives Matter, not to put a focus on W3C and the past, but
>     to acknowledge we have issues with a lack of diversity that has
>     had unintended consequeneces in what we have done and that we
>     are only now undertstanding. I think the statement is
>     reiterating the intention to create technology for everyone,
>     but the point is that in solidarity with Black Lives Matter, we
>     set out to be inclusive but to do that we need a new level of
>     involvement.
>     … so to be successful this needs to be focused on supporting
>     Black Lives Matter, not what W3C has done.
> 
>     <tzviya> +1 to heathervescent
> 
>     <wendyreid> +1
> 
>     <wseltzer> +1 to heathervescent
> 
>     <wendyreid> +1
> 
>     LJW: Jeff, did I misunderstand your question?
> 
>     <dka_> +1 to heather's comments.
> 
>     JJ: I don't think so, I was unclear how we were going to
>     address this. Moving to the mailing list is fine.
> 
>     WendyR: Looking at the comments I agree with you Léonie, I
>     don't understand the first comment. I have tried to keep this
>     simple, and resist wordsmithing because we have the bad habit
>     of complicating things.
> 
>     <koalie> 0 to heather's comment, for the record
> 
>     WendyR: think the final comment is great, agree.
> 
>     [chaals: If I have understood correctly, I don't really agree
>     with Heather's comment]
> 
>     Tzviya: Should we take a minute to introduce new members?
> 
>     <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to recommended intro new members
> 
>    Intros
> 
>     WendyR: co-chair of publishing, work for Rakuten
> 
>     Chaals: Chaals Nevile, have been various things around W3C in
>     various organisations for a couple of decades including WG
>     chair, AC rep, AB member, staff member, and participant in a
>     range of groups
> 
>     Coralie: co-chair with Léonie of this, head of comms at W3C
> 
>     DKA: Dan Appelquist, work for Samsung, co-chair TAG
> 
>     Heather: New co-chair of Credential Community Group, been
>     around about 3 years, ran into someone who wasn't supportive of
>     diversity. I am a futurist running a consultancy and I am very
>     organised.
>     … Putting together a diversity plan for the credentials
>     community group.
> 
>     Jeff: Jeff Jaffe, W3C CEO. Interested in seeing Heather's
>     strategic plan for diversity. My focus here is less on
>     statements and more interested in hearing about the actions and
>     whether we can take them across W3C.
> 
>     <shawn> [ Shawn Lawton Henry, W3C Staff, Accessibility
>     Education and Outreach. (lurking in IRC until her topic comes
>     up : How we can make W3C more welcoming) ]
> 
>     Killian: I am an archivist and counseloor for Europeana. I am
>     here to listen - Europeana are looking to improve diversity
>     from our network of privilege. We want to look to have
>     discussion before taking approrpiate action.
> 
>     Mel: Melanie Richards, Microsoft, been in different WGs at W3C,
>     currently focused on some controls stuff. Excited to make web
>     standards more inclusive and accessible.
> 
>     Tess: Tess O'Connor, Apple, TAG member, and been in other
>     groups for years.
> 
>     Tzviya: Tzviya Siegman, Wiley, co-chair Publishing WG, am on
>     AB, co-chaired the group workig on the code of professional
>     conduct.
> 
>     WendyS: Stragtegy lead at W3C, eager to help work on diversity
> 
>     Judy: Judy Brewer, W3C director of Web Accessibility
>     Initiative, interested in diversity and intersectionality and
>     happy W3C is looking at being more aware of and taking more
>     action on racial justice issues.
> 
>     Léonie: On AB, co-chair of webapps WG and this group, happy to
>     be chairing these meetings with a little help from my friends.
> 
>     Koalie: Nice work Léonie, thanks for doing this.
> 
>    Finalising the actions included in the statement
> 
>     <wendyreid> [10]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/
>     Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
> 
>       [10] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
> 
>     <jeff> From Judy's email: "W3C commits to take actions in the
>     areas of learning, messaging, outreach and inreach, creating a
>     welcoming environment, supporting participants, technical
>     development, governance, and continuous improvement."
> 
>     Judy: I looked across proposed actions, and minutes from the
>     meetings, to try capturing comprehensively the set of actions
>     that it sounds like the ones we would take up, to fill in the
>     blank on the statement we have been drafting.
>     … In initial message I had detailed examples of actions we have
>     discussed or people have volunteered for. Jeff and Léonie both
>     noted we shouldn't include things where we don't have a
>     volunteer identified, and I support that.
>     … Think we do better being conservative in commitments. Since
>     then I put a suggestion that we organise the action ideas page
>     to match this taxonomy but didn't want to go in and do that
>     without agreement. THink it would help scan and see where we
>     have gaps that we should look to cover,
> 
>     LJW: Sure, please make the edits.
> 
>     JB: If we recategorise it that way, if we have a volunteer for
>     each effort, would people feel comfortable with the less
>     detailed but more comprehensive statement, or are we not there
>     yet?
> 
>     JJ: If we have a volunteer for each area that would be great.
>     Named leads and example expected tasks would be a nice package.
> 
>     <Zakim> dka_, you wanted to suggest moving quickly is important
>     here.
> 
>     <koalie> [I have a language-related issue: distinction between
>     "less detailed" and "more comprehensive"?]
> 
>     DKA: I am starting to lose track of what all the actions are
>     leading up to. I think the focus should be on making a fast
>     statement, because we are losing relevance to the community we
>     are trying to reach. What are the actions we need before the
>     statement comes out?
> 
>     JB: An advantage of the generic list is we could agree on it
>     today and get a statement out. Jeff's suggestion means we only
>     need to confirm 7 or 8 people that we could achieve now,
>     instead of many more.
> 
>     JJ: Agree we should get moving. I have also seen many
>     organisations produce vacuous statements. As a matter of
>     personal taste, if we are serious more of the conversation
>     needs to be about what we do, not just what we say.
> 
>     <Judy> "W3C commits to take actions in the areas of learning,
>     messaging, outreach and inreach, creating a welcoming
>     environment, supporting participants, technical development,
>     governance, and continuous improvement."
> 
>     [chaals: +1 to being more focused on doing stuff than making a
>     statement at the expense of it being correct]
> 
>     <koalie> [11]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/
>     Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
> 
>       [11] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
> 
>     JB: We have an action ideas list - does someone have the link
>     and can we see who has signed up for actions?
> 
>     LJW: Agree with Dan, we have to ask the AC for consent and
>     expect that to take 4 weeks. Doing both of these makes sense -
>     come out today with a short list of actions with named
>     responsible people would be good. Longer path of adding more
>     detail as we work would serve us well.
> 
>     JB: Can I read out the 8 areas and see if we have a volunteer
>     for each?
> 
>     LJW: Yep, that's the agenda.
> 
>     JB: Learning - Tzviya and I have been talking about it, there
>     has been a discussion on the IDCG internal list
> 
>     TS: (that was an accident)
> 
>     JB: Could you volunteer to lead on that?
> 
>     TS: Yes.
> 
>     JB: Messaging. Last time we asked Coralie if she could help -
>     could you lead that one?
> 
>     JJ: This has to be done through W3C commnuications, so it has
>     to go through W3C in any case, so I don't see another way than
>     making Coralie the lead.
> 
>     Coralie: OK, I am volunteered.
> 
>     JB: Outreach and inreach. I am willing to help, could lead if
>     there isn't someone who wants to but would be delighted if
>     someone would like to.
> 
>     TS: The hiring issue is hard for people to volunteer, this has
>     to be taken up by W3C staff.
>     … There's a lot of complexity in here to deal with.
> 
>     WS: We have a bunch of volunteers on the wiki for a slightly
>     different set of categories. Feels like we are repeating
>     ourselves in a slightly different key…
>     … so I am losing the thread a bit too.
> 
>     <Zakim> wseltzer, you wanted to discuss these categories
> 
>     LJW: Can we map volunteers we have on the wiki to Judy's
>     structure?
> 
>     JB: Idea of taxonomy is to see if we can back a high-level
>     statement and find someone responsible in each area. The
>     disconnect I see is people may have volnteered for sub-level
>     actions, but that's why I think we are doing this exercise.
> 
>     <wendyreid> +1 Léonie
> 
>     LJW: If we want to include a list of actions in the statement
>     they need to be precise. Otherwise if we are describing general
>     stuff it is hard to look at it and see what to expect in terms
>     of outcomes.
> 
>     <Judy> Coralie here is the list of higher-level actions I'd
>     suggested: "W3C commits to take actions in the areas of
>     learning, messaging, outreach and inreach, creating a welcoming
>     environment, supporting participants, technical development,
>     governance, and continuous improvement."
> 
>     LJW: We can put the things we have into higher level
>     categories, but I think we need to choose the right thing for
>     the here and now first.
> 
>     <Judy> [12]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/
>     Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
> 
>       [12] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
> 
>     Coralie: I was confused because I was reading from the wiki,
>     and seeing stuff that didn't match. Now I think I got to the
>     same page.
> 
>     <Judy> [JB: yes we were in the middle of a re-mapping to see if
>     we can back the proposed high-level action statement]
> 
>     WR: I think I agree weith Léonie we should list the more
>     concrete actions. No problem with broader categories, but need
>     to have something people can see the outcomes in a reasonable
>     amount of time.
>     … there are names attached to many actions. I can put my name
>     on stuff to make it happen. I think we have a good list to
>     start from. These can produce more things we will do, it isn't
>     like this problem gets fixed with a few months of one-off
>     actions.
> 
>     <Zakim> Judy, you wanted to briefly state why I'd proposed this
>     categorization for an action statement
> 
>     JB: I had noted we still had a hole in our statement for what
>     we could commit to. Looking like turning the list of actions
>     into a stetement it looked piecemeal. Other organisations have
>     made some principled statements of concern, not what re they
>     giong to do.
>     … also looked at some organisations saying what they are doing
>     and their comprehensive plans to address what they are
>     improving, and I felt we were close to a situation where we can
>     say we are trying to look at the whole organisation. If someone
>     thinks they can turn the existing action list into something
>     for a statement I would encourage that.
>     … I would prefer a statement that covers comprehensive change
>     then backed by concrete actions.
> 
>     <koalie> +1 to what Léonie is saying
> 
>     LJW: think it is a question of how we get to something
>     happening quickly. Incorporating the introductory statement
>     describing thecomprehesive set of areas to work, but then we
>     should identify the actual concrete actions we can be held
>     accountable for in the short term.
>     … I think the world at large will expect us to produce more
>     information further down the track.
> 
>     TS: So, the proposal is to have the text that we talked about,
>     and instead of the itemised list of actions we would have the
>     sentence Judy proposed?
> 
>     <tink> The version of the proposed statement here includes the
>     suggested paragraph from Judy Brewer: [13]https://github.com/
>     w3c/idcg/wiki/proposed-statement
> 
>       [13] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/proposed-statement
> 
>     TS: and that means we have specific items, but not the detailed
>     list of actions we will do? That speeds up the process and
>     allows us to take further action…
> 
>     LJW: Yes.
> 
>     DKA: Yes.
> 
>     <tzviya> W3C commits to take actions in the areas of learning,
>     messaging, outreach and inreach, creating a welcoming
>     environment, supporting participants, technical development,
>     governance, and continuous improvement.
> 
>     <koalie> +1
> 
>     LJW: So in final 7 minutes, can we make a dash through the
>     things where we have volunteers, and see how many can be added
>     to the list?
> 
>     <jeff> +1 to have diversity fund on the list
> 
>     <wendyreid> +1
> 
>     <hober> +1
> 
>     LJW: more support with diversity fund; Dan and Wendy are
>     leading it. Support or objections?
> 
>     <melanierichards> +1
> 
>     DKA: +1
> 
>     <koalie> +1
> 
>     <dka_> +1
> 
>     <chaals> +1
> 
>     LJW: Invited expert fee waiver. This already exists. Suggest we
>     include it.
> 
>     JJ: There are no fees for TPAC this year for anyone.
> 
>     <chaals> 11
> 
>     <Judy> 0
> 
>     <jeff> +1
> 
>     <tzviya> 0
> 
>     <koalie> 0
> 
>     <dka_> 0
> 
>     LJW: let's leave that out.
>     … Making W3C more welcoming. No volunteers for group welcomes.
> 
>     Tzviya: we have a group working on that, me, Shawn, Tess,
>     Barbara, …
> 
>     <wseltzer> [and I volunteered to be among that group]
> 
>     JB: Matches a higher-level categorisation too
> 
>     LJW: is that clear enough to add to the list?
> 
>     TS: Think so
> 
>     <koalie> +1
> 
>     chaals: +1
> 
>     <wendyreid> +1
> 
>     <Judy> +1
> 
>     <jeff> +1
> 
>     <dka_> +1
> 
>     <wendyreid> +1
> 
>     <hober> +1
> 
>     LJW: OK, add that one.
> 
>     [resolved]
> 
>     LJW: More outreach encompasses a number of different items
> 
>     <Zakim> dka_, you wanted to opine that making a statement that
>     includes even a partial list of actions is better than not
>     issuing a statement.
> 
>     Jeff: Previous includes CEPC and includes draft with more
>     detail on racism. CEPC has more detail on all sorts of
>     unacceptable behaviours. Prefer we don't just call out racism
>     but be more inclusive about what is unacceptable.
> 
>     LJW: Good point will update the wiki.
> 
>     <hober> +1 to Jeff
> 
>     LJW: happy for open office hours to be added, has traction.
> 
>     <wendyreid> +1
> 
>     chaals: +1
> 
>     <dka_> +1
> 
>     <jeff> +1
> 
>     <Judy> 0
> 
>     <koalie> +1
> 
>     JB: I focused more on other stuff in the last week so I didn't
>     synch up. I am gravitating towards the higher level categories
>     -this is outreach and inreach. I think it will be a whole
>     cluster of actions.
> 
>     <melanierichards> +1 to outreach
> 
>     LJW: Include outreach as a general action?
> 
>     <koalie> +1
> 
>     chaals: +1
> 
>     <Judy> +1
> 
>     <hober> +1 to outreach, -0.5 to inreach
> 
>     JB: is term inreach too confusing
> 
>     <dka_> +1 to outreach
> 
>     <tzviya> +1 to outreach
> 
>     <wendyreid> +1
> 
>     [chaals: I don't love the term inreach: 0 for that bit]
> 
>     LJW: Equity Review Board? Tess is leading - are you still up
>     for it, everyone should we include it?
> 
>     <koalie> +1
> 
>     Tess: We should. We should work on defining it more clearly.
> 
>     <tzviya> +1 to ERB
> 
>     <jeff> Avoid discrimination: +1 to the concept; -1 on ERB
>     until/unless ERB is better framed. Glad to hear that Tess is
>     working on it.
> 
>     <dka_> +1 to ERB
> 
>     Tess: we can list it appropriately described
> 
>     <wendyreid> +1 to ERB
> 
>     <Judy> +1
> 
>     <hober> +1 to ERB/governance
> 
>     JB: I proposed governance as a category to cover this, couldn't
>     find equity review board commonly
> 
>     [chaals: +1 to ERB and think that is better than describing it
>     as governance.]
> 
>     <koalie> thanks chaals for scribing, tink for chairing
> 
>     LJW: will share by email to try and get agreement on list and
>     get to AC for review.
> 
>     [Thank you Koalie for cleaning up the minutes]
> 
>     <koalie> [you're very welcome]
> 
> 
>      Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
>      [14]scribe.perl version 121 (Mon Jun 8 14:50:45 2020 UTC).
> 
>       [14] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html
> 
> 
> --
> Coralie Mercier  -  W3C Marketing & Communications -  https://www.w3.org
> mailto:coralie@w3.org +337 810 795 22 https://www.w3.org/People/Coralie/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Director @TetraLogical
https://tetralogical.com

Received on Thursday, 9 July 2020 18:44:35 UTC