- From: Coralie Mercier <coralie@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 19:15:48 +0200
- To: Léonie Watson <lwatson@tetralogical.com>, Inclusion and Diversity Community Group <public-idcg@w3.org>
> On 9 Jul 2020, at 09:30 , Léonie Watson <lwatson@tetralogical.com> wrote:
>
> Day: Thursday 9 July 2020
> Time: 3PM UTC (Please convert to your local time)
>
> 1. Finalising the statement
> 2. Finalising the actions included in the statement
> 3. How we can offer more support (Dan and Wendy)
> 4. How we can make W3C more welcoming (Tzviya)
> 5. How we can do more outreach (Judy and Barb)
> 6. How we can do more to avoid discrimination (Tess and Judy)
> 7. How we can share more information (Judy)
>
> IRC: irc.w3.org #idcg
> Zoom:
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/internal-idcg/2020Jun/0008.html
The minutes from today’s meeting are available (thanks chaals and WendyR for scribing!):
https://www.w3.org/2020/07/09-idcg-minutes.html
Text version:
=============
Inclusion and Diversity CG
09 July 2020
[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.
[2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-idcg/2020Jul/0020.html
[3] https://www.w3.org/2020/07/09-idcg-irc
Attendees
Present
chaals, Coralie, Dan Appelquist, heathervescent, hober,
jeff, Judy, Killian_Downing, Léonie, melanierichards,
tzviya, wendyreid, wseltzer
Regrets
Florian, Vagner
Chair
Léonie
Scribe
chaals, wendyreid
Contents
1. [4]Finalising the statement
2. [5]Intros
3. [6]Finalising the actions included in the statement
Meeting minutes
<koalie> [7]Previous (2020-07-02)
[7] https://www.w3.org/2020/07/02-idcg-minutes.html
Finalising the statement
<tink> [8]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/proposed-statement
[8] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/proposed-statement
LJW: Added Judy's text summarising the actions and taking up
themes.
JudyB: We should talk about status
LJW: We are wordsmithing the statement, seems people are
generally happy with it except we need to finalise the set of
actions we would like to add - which is the next agendum
<Zakim> wseltzer, you wanted to add "privacy" to
"accessibility, security, and internationalization"
WendyS: Would you like continued edits, if so, how?
<Judy> +1 to including privacy
<koalie> +1
LJW: By email is best, and I will try to work them in. Do you
have something specific?
<dka_> +1
WS: Add privacy into horizontal review areas
LJW: Yeah we should do that live
<hober> +1 to including privacy
WendyR: I can do that
DKA: What happened with Amy's comments?
LJW: Didnt incorporate them. I disagreed with the first
suggestion.
[Wendy reads out Amy's email]
<wseltzer> [9]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/
internal-idcg/2020Jul/0004.html
[9] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/internal-idcg/2020Jul/0004.html
<wseltzer> [I thought we had previously made a different edit
to address that first comment, but don't see it reflected on
the wiki]
WS: Are there other texts, that are getting out of synch?
<Zakim> dka_, you wanted to ask about Amy's comments?
LJW: I haven't seen other replies so don't think we had agreed
to any edits.
WS: Thought we had already agreed to an edit that would have
addressed Amy's first comment.
LJW: I thought I put up the latest agreed version on the wiki
JudyB: I have deja vu on this too and think we had addressed
it. We need to do some archaeology to figure that out
LJW: The phrase "who we are and what we do" was a change made
by a meeting a couple of weeks ago - is that what people are
thinking of?
… needed to talk about both us as a group of people as well as
the work we do, as things we would like to change.
… I think we are trying to acknowledge that until we have a
diverse community we cannot be confident that what we work on
actually covers the needs of everyone.
… please propose edits via the list.
JeffJaffe: Amy raised some issues, Léonie you disagreed with
one, do we have a consensus on the call about whether we
recognise those issues
LJW: Odd question, we should definitely recognise them, and
think the mechanism should be email.
JJ: OK.
Heather: Think the point of the statement is in support of
Black Lives Matter, not to put a focus on W3C and the past, but
to acknowledge we have issues with a lack of diversity that has
had unintended consequeneces in what we have done and that we
are only now undertstanding. I think the statement is
reiterating the intention to create technology for everyone,
but the point is that in solidarity with Black Lives Matter, we
set out to be inclusive but to do that we need a new level of
involvement.
… so to be successful this needs to be focused on supporting
Black Lives Matter, not what W3C has done.
<tzviya> +1 to heathervescent
<wendyreid> +1
<wseltzer> +1 to heathervescent
<wendyreid> +1
LJW: Jeff, did I misunderstand your question?
<dka_> +1 to heather's comments.
JJ: I don't think so, I was unclear how we were going to
address this. Moving to the mailing list is fine.
WendyR: Looking at the comments I agree with you Léonie, I
don't understand the first comment. I have tried to keep this
simple, and resist wordsmithing because we have the bad habit
of complicating things.
<koalie> 0 to heather's comment, for the record
WendyR: think the final comment is great, agree.
[chaals: If I have understood correctly, I don't really agree
with Heather's comment]
Tzviya: Should we take a minute to introduce new members?
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to recommended intro new members
Intros
WendyR: co-chair of publishing, work for Rakuten
Chaals: Chaals Nevile, have been various things around W3C in
various organisations for a couple of decades including WG
chair, AC rep, AB member, staff member, and participant in a
range of groups
Coralie: co-chair with Léonie of this, head of comms at W3C
DKA: Dan Appelquist, work for Samsung, co-chair TAG
Heather: New co-chair of Credential Community Group, been
around about 3 years, ran into someone who wasn't supportive of
diversity. I am a futurist running a consultancy and I am very
organised.
… Putting together a diversity plan for the credentials
community group.
Jeff: Jeff Jaffe, W3C CEO. Interested in seeing Heather's
strategic plan for diversity. My focus here is less on
statements and more interested in hearing about the actions and
whether we can take them across W3C.
<shawn> [ Shawn Lawton Henry, W3C Staff, Accessibility
Education and Outreach. (lurking in IRC until her topic comes
up : How we can make W3C more welcoming) ]
Killian: I am an archivist and counseloor for Europeana. I am
here to listen - Europeana are looking to improve diversity
from our network of privilege. We want to look to have
discussion before taking approrpiate action.
Mel: Melanie Richards, Microsoft, been in different WGs at W3C,
currently focused on some controls stuff. Excited to make web
standards more inclusive and accessible.
Tess: Tess O'Connor, Apple, TAG member, and been in other
groups for years.
Tzviya: Tzviya Siegman, Wiley, co-chair Publishing WG, am on
AB, co-chaired the group workig on the code of professional
conduct.
WendyS: Stragtegy lead at W3C, eager to help work on diversity
Judy: Judy Brewer, W3C director of Web Accessibility
Initiative, interested in diversity and intersectionality and
happy W3C is looking at being more aware of and taking more
action on racial justice issues.
Léonie: On AB, co-chair of webapps WG and this group, happy to
be chairing these meetings with a little help from my friends.
Koalie: Nice work Léonie, thanks for doing this.
Finalising the actions included in the statement
<wendyreid> [10]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/
Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
[10] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
<jeff> From Judy's email: "W3C commits to take actions in the
areas of learning, messaging, outreach and inreach, creating a
welcoming environment, supporting participants, technical
development, governance, and continuous improvement."
Judy: I looked across proposed actions, and minutes from the
meetings, to try capturing comprehensively the set of actions
that it sounds like the ones we would take up, to fill in the
blank on the statement we have been drafting.
… In initial message I had detailed examples of actions we have
discussed or people have volunteered for. Jeff and Léonie both
noted we shouldn't include things where we don't have a
volunteer identified, and I support that.
… Think we do better being conservative in commitments. Since
then I put a suggestion that we organise the action ideas page
to match this taxonomy but didn't want to go in and do that
without agreement. THink it would help scan and see where we
have gaps that we should look to cover,
LJW: Sure, please make the edits.
JB: If we recategorise it that way, if we have a volunteer for
each effort, would people feel comfortable with the less
detailed but more comprehensive statement, or are we not there
yet?
JJ: If we have a volunteer for each area that would be great.
Named leads and example expected tasks would be a nice package.
<Zakim> dka_, you wanted to suggest moving quickly is important
here.
<koalie> [I have a language-related issue: distinction between
"less detailed" and "more comprehensive"?]
DKA: I am starting to lose track of what all the actions are
leading up to. I think the focus should be on making a fast
statement, because we are losing relevance to the community we
are trying to reach. What are the actions we need before the
statement comes out?
JB: An advantage of the generic list is we could agree on it
today and get a statement out. Jeff's suggestion means we only
need to confirm 7 or 8 people that we could achieve now,
instead of many more.
JJ: Agree we should get moving. I have also seen many
organisations produce vacuous statements. As a matter of
personal taste, if we are serious more of the conversation
needs to be about what we do, not just what we say.
<Judy> "W3C commits to take actions in the areas of learning,
messaging, outreach and inreach, creating a welcoming
environment, supporting participants, technical development,
governance, and continuous improvement."
[chaals: +1 to being more focused on doing stuff than making a
statement at the expense of it being correct]
<koalie> [11]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/
Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
[11] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
JB: We have an action ideas list - does someone have the link
and can we see who has signed up for actions?
LJW: Agree with Dan, we have to ask the AC for consent and
expect that to take 4 weeks. Doing both of these makes sense -
come out today with a short list of actions with named
responsible people would be good. Longer path of adding more
detail as we work would serve us well.
JB: Can I read out the 8 areas and see if we have a volunteer
for each?
LJW: Yep, that's the agenda.
JB: Learning - Tzviya and I have been talking about it, there
has been a discussion on the IDCG internal list
TS: (that was an accident)
JB: Could you volunteer to lead on that?
TS: Yes.
JB: Messaging. Last time we asked Coralie if she could help -
could you lead that one?
JJ: This has to be done through W3C commnuications, so it has
to go through W3C in any case, so I don't see another way than
making Coralie the lead.
Coralie: OK, I am volunteered.
JB: Outreach and inreach. I am willing to help, could lead if
there isn't someone who wants to but would be delighted if
someone would like to.
TS: The hiring issue is hard for people to volunteer, this has
to be taken up by W3C staff.
… There's a lot of complexity in here to deal with.
WS: We have a bunch of volunteers on the wiki for a slightly
different set of categories. Feels like we are repeating
ourselves in a slightly different key…
… so I am losing the thread a bit too.
<Zakim> wseltzer, you wanted to discuss these categories
LJW: Can we map volunteers we have on the wiki to Judy's
structure?
JB: Idea of taxonomy is to see if we can back a high-level
statement and find someone responsible in each area. The
disconnect I see is people may have volnteered for sub-level
actions, but that's why I think we are doing this exercise.
<wendyreid> +1 Léonie
LJW: If we want to include a list of actions in the statement
they need to be precise. Otherwise if we are describing general
stuff it is hard to look at it and see what to expect in terms
of outcomes.
<Judy> Coralie here is the list of higher-level actions I'd
suggested: "W3C commits to take actions in the areas of
learning, messaging, outreach and inreach, creating a welcoming
environment, supporting participants, technical development,
governance, and continuous improvement."
LJW: We can put the things we have into higher level
categories, but I think we need to choose the right thing for
the here and now first.
<Judy> [12]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/
Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
[12] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/Ideas-for-ID-CG-actions
Coralie: I was confused because I was reading from the wiki,
and seeing stuff that didn't match. Now I think I got to the
same page.
<Judy> [JB: yes we were in the middle of a re-mapping to see if
we can back the proposed high-level action statement]
WR: I think I agree weith Léonie we should list the more
concrete actions. No problem with broader categories, but need
to have something people can see the outcomes in a reasonable
amount of time.
… there are names attached to many actions. I can put my name
on stuff to make it happen. I think we have a good list to
start from. These can produce more things we will do, it isn't
like this problem gets fixed with a few months of one-off
actions.
<Zakim> Judy, you wanted to briefly state why I'd proposed this
categorization for an action statement
JB: I had noted we still had a hole in our statement for what
we could commit to. Looking like turning the list of actions
into a stetement it looked piecemeal. Other organisations have
made some principled statements of concern, not what re they
giong to do.
… also looked at some organisations saying what they are doing
and their comprehensive plans to address what they are
improving, and I felt we were close to a situation where we can
say we are trying to look at the whole organisation. If someone
thinks they can turn the existing action list into something
for a statement I would encourage that.
… I would prefer a statement that covers comprehensive change
then backed by concrete actions.
<koalie> +1 to what Léonie is saying
LJW: think it is a question of how we get to something
happening quickly. Incorporating the introductory statement
describing thecomprehesive set of areas to work, but then we
should identify the actual concrete actions we can be held
accountable for in the short term.
… I think the world at large will expect us to produce more
information further down the track.
TS: So, the proposal is to have the text that we talked about,
and instead of the itemised list of actions we would have the
sentence Judy proposed?
<tink> The version of the proposed statement here includes the
suggested paragraph from Judy Brewer: [13]https://github.com/
w3c/idcg/wiki/proposed-statement
[13] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/wiki/proposed-statement
TS: and that means we have specific items, but not the detailed
list of actions we will do? That speeds up the process and
allows us to take further action…
LJW: Yes.
DKA: Yes.
<tzviya> W3C commits to take actions in the areas of learning,
messaging, outreach and inreach, creating a welcoming
environment, supporting participants, technical development,
governance, and continuous improvement.
<koalie> +1
LJW: So in final 7 minutes, can we make a dash through the
things where we have volunteers, and see how many can be added
to the list?
<jeff> +1 to have diversity fund on the list
<wendyreid> +1
<hober> +1
LJW: more support with diversity fund; Dan and Wendy are
leading it. Support or objections?
<melanierichards> +1
DKA: +1
<koalie> +1
<dka_> +1
<chaals> +1
LJW: Invited expert fee waiver. This already exists. Suggest we
include it.
JJ: There are no fees for TPAC this year for anyone.
<chaals> 11
<Judy> 0
<jeff> +1
<tzviya> 0
<koalie> 0
<dka_> 0
LJW: let's leave that out.
… Making W3C more welcoming. No volunteers for group welcomes.
Tzviya: we have a group working on that, me, Shawn, Tess,
Barbara, …
<wseltzer> [and I volunteered to be among that group]
JB: Matches a higher-level categorisation too
LJW: is that clear enough to add to the list?
TS: Think so
<koalie> +1
chaals: +1
<wendyreid> +1
<Judy> +1
<jeff> +1
<dka_> +1
<wendyreid> +1
<hober> +1
LJW: OK, add that one.
[resolved]
LJW: More outreach encompasses a number of different items
<Zakim> dka_, you wanted to opine that making a statement that
includes even a partial list of actions is better than not
issuing a statement.
Jeff: Previous includes CEPC and includes draft with more
detail on racism. CEPC has more detail on all sorts of
unacceptable behaviours. Prefer we don't just call out racism
but be more inclusive about what is unacceptable.
LJW: Good point will update the wiki.
<hober> +1 to Jeff
LJW: happy for open office hours to be added, has traction.
<wendyreid> +1
chaals: +1
<dka_> +1
<jeff> +1
<Judy> 0
<koalie> +1
JB: I focused more on other stuff in the last week so I didn't
synch up. I am gravitating towards the higher level categories
-this is outreach and inreach. I think it will be a whole
cluster of actions.
<melanierichards> +1 to outreach
LJW: Include outreach as a general action?
<koalie> +1
chaals: +1
<Judy> +1
<hober> +1 to outreach, -0.5 to inreach
JB: is term inreach too confusing
<dka_> +1 to outreach
<tzviya> +1 to outreach
<wendyreid> +1
[chaals: I don't love the term inreach: 0 for that bit]
LJW: Equity Review Board? Tess is leading - are you still up
for it, everyone should we include it?
<koalie> +1
Tess: We should. We should work on defining it more clearly.
<tzviya> +1 to ERB
<jeff> Avoid discrimination: +1 to the concept; -1 on ERB
until/unless ERB is better framed. Glad to hear that Tess is
working on it.
<dka_> +1 to ERB
Tess: we can list it appropriately described
<wendyreid> +1 to ERB
<Judy> +1
<hober> +1 to ERB/governance
JB: I proposed governance as a category to cover this, couldn't
find equity review board commonly
[chaals: +1 to ERB and think that is better than describing it
as governance.]
<koalie> thanks chaals for scribing, tink for chairing
LJW: will share by email to try and get agreement on list and
get to AC for review.
[Thank you Koalie for cleaning up the minutes]
<koalie> [you're very welcome]
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
[14]scribe.perl version 121 (Mon Jun 8 14:50:45 2020 UTC).
[14] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html
--
Coralie Mercier - W3C Marketing & Communications - https://www.w3.org
mailto:coralie@w3.org +337 810 795 22 https://www.w3.org/People/Coralie/
Received on Thursday, 9 July 2020 17:15:54 UTC