- From: Tex Texin <tex@xencraft.com>
- Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:17:48 -0500
- To: Takao Suzuki <takaos@microsoft.com>
- Cc: Mike McKenna <mgm@globalisation.org>, Web Services <public-i18n-ws@w3.org>
From a language standpoint, you are right, the second example points out the inconsistency between the two names. However from a "counting" standpoint, I thought it was interesting that the first example used 0:00 twice in 24 hrs rather than going from 0-23:59. Might point to errors that can occur even if an integer-only field was used to indicate time. Takao Suzuki wrote: > > In this case, we should change the example > > from: > > Time : To do Western/English > ---------- : ----------------------- > GOZEN 8:00 : Breakfast 8:00 A.M. > GOGO 0:00 : Lunch 12:00PM > GOGO 7:00 : Dinner 7:00 PM > GOZEN 0:00 : Go to bed 12:00AM > > to: > > Time : To do Western/English > ---------- : ----------------------- > GOZEN 8:00 : Breakfast 8:00 A.M. > GOZEN 12:00 : Lunch 12:00PM > GOGO 7:00 : Dinner 7:00 PM > GOGO 12:00 : Go to bed 12:00AM > > This will illustlate the original point much clearer. > > GOGO 0:00 is equal to GOZEN 12:00, and both mean Noon. > GOZEN 0:00 is equal to GOGO 12:00, and both mean Midnight. > > Thanks > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tex Texin" <tex@xencraft.com> > To: "Mike McKenna" <mgm@globalisation.org> > Cc: "Takao Suzuki" <takaos@microsoft.com>; "Web Services" > <public-i18n-ws@w3.org> > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:43 AM > Subject: Re: 4.2 intro and 4.4.1 > > > Agreed and you can't assume that "no parking" would not apply so late in > the > > evening. > > > > I got a very expensive ticket in NYC because I assumed that meters would > not > > apply after 11pm. > > We had gone to chinatown for late dinner and it turns out you needed to > put > > money in the meter through to midnight. > > > > Now I know that when they say the city never sleeps, they mean they tax > you > > 24x7. > > ;-( > > > > Mike McKenna wrote: > > > > > > The problem is really a pain when parking signs say something like: "No > > > Parking: 8 PM to 12 PM" and you find out they meant noon, not midnight > > > when you get the ticket on your windshield. > > > > > > Mike____ > > > > > > Tex Texin wrote: > > > > > > >Hi, > > > > > > > >Good example. Note that translating Gozen and Gogo to AM and PM works > out ok, > > > >but the 0:00 needs to convert to 12:00. Same confusion apparently > exists in > > > >English, see excerpts from Heritage dictionary below. > > > > > > > >tex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Time : To do Western/English > > > >>---------- : ----------------------- > > > >>GOZEN 8:00 : Breakfast 8:00 A.M. > > > >>GOGO 0:00 : Lunch 12:00PM > > > >>GOGO 7:00 : Dinner 7:00 PM > > > >>GOZEN 0:00 : Go to bed 12:00AM > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pm > > > > > > > >P.M. also p.m. or P.M. > > > >abbr. post meridiem. > > > >Usage Note: By definition, 12 A.M. denotes midnight, and 12 P.M. > denotes noon, > > > >but there is sufficient confusion over the meanings of A.M. and P.M. > when the > > > >hour is 12 to make it advisable to use 12 noon and 12 midnight where > clarity is > > > >required. > > > > > > > >http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=am > > > > > > > >also a.m. or A.M.ante meridiem. > > > >Usage Note: By definition, 12 A.M. denotes midnight, and 12 P.M. > denotes noon, > > > >but there is sufficient confusion over these uses to make it advisable > to use > > > >12 noon and 12 midnight where clarity is required. > > > > > > > >Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, > Fourth > > > >Edition > > > >Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. > > > >Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Takao Suzuki wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>Here is my attempt to fill 4.2 intro section and 4.4.1 Pandora's box. > > > >> > > > >>-takao > > > >> > > > >>4.2 Locale/Language Dependency in Message Exchange Patterns > > > >> > > > >>When exchanging a message, the requester and service that the > requester > > > >>accesses may have different default locales and language preferences. > In > > > >>addition, there may be more than one service involved in the message > > > >>exchange. And there may be different requester, who consumes the > > > >>message, who may expect different locale and language. > > > >> > > > >>Message exchange in components with different language and/or locales > > > >>may result a failure or unexpected result. This section describes > > > >>various message exchange patterns that need consideration or that have > > > >>potential failure scenarios. > > > >> > > > >>4.4.1 Using non-internationalized Data Structures > > > >> > > > >>A data structure may be provided without international considerations. > > > >>This may happen, for instance, when a service was originally designed > > > >>and targeted for a specific local market and later adopted to a global > > > >>Web service. > > > >> > > > >>This is an example of my daily activity provided in Japanese 12 hour > > > >>time scheme. > > > >> > > > >>Example: My schedule > > > >> > > > >>Time : To do > > > >>---------- : ----------------------- > > > >>GOZEN 8:00 : Breakfast > > > >>GOGO 0:00 : Lunch > > > >>GOGO 7:00 : Dinner > > > >>GOZEN 0:00 : Go to bed > > > >> > > > >>GOZEN means "before noon", and generally corresponds to AM. GOGO means > > > >>"after noon", and generally corresponds to PM. The problem is GOGO > 0:00 > > > >>is noon rather than 0:00 AM, and GOZEN 0:00 is midnight rather than > 0:00 > > > >>PM. This is confusing and conversion to internationally known time > > > >>format may fail. > > > >> > > > >>Thank you > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@XenCraft.com > > Xen Master http://www.i18nGuy.com > > > > XenCraft http://www.XenCraft.com > > Making e-Business Work Around the World > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ################################################################# > > ################################################################# > > ################################################################# > > ##### > > ##### > > ##### > > ################################################################# > > ################################################################# > > ################################################################# > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Tex Texin cell: +1 781 789 1898 mailto:Tex@XenCraft.com Xen Master http://www.i18nGuy.com XenCraft http://www.XenCraft.com Making e-Business Work Around the World -------------------------------------------------------------
Received on Saturday, 3 April 2004 13:20:28 UTC