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RE: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

From: <jrmt@almas.co.jp>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2015 10:12:41 +0900
To: "'Badral S.'" <badral@bolorsoft.com>, <public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org>
Message-ID: <000801d11767$1248db50$36da91f0$@almas.co.jp>
Hi Badral and All,

 

I found the Mongolian word SAIQAN in my mail is not correctly shown on the Windows 7 OS, because of the Mongolian Baiti older version’s problem.

 

I have created PDF version of my previous mail and recommit to here.

 

Thanks and Best regards,

 

Jirimutu

===============================================================

Almas Inc. 

101-0021 601 Nitto-Bldg, 6-15-11, Soto-Kanda, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo

E-Mail: jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp>    Mobile : 090-6174-6115

Phone : 03-5688-2081,   Fax : 03-5688-2082

http://www.almas.co.jp/   http://www.compiere-japan.com/

http://www.mongolfont.com/

---------------------------------------------------------------

Inner Mongolia Delehi Information Technology Co. Ltd.

010010 13th floor of Uiles Hotel, No 89 XinHua east street XinCheng District, Hohhot, Inner Mongolia

Mail:  jirimutu@delehi.com <mailto:jirimutu@delehi.com>        Mobile:18647152148

Phone:  +86-471-6661969,      Ofiice: +86-471-6661995

http://www.delehi.com/

===============================================================

 

From: jrmt@almas.co.jp [mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp] 
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2015 9:41 AM
To: 'Badral S.' <badral@bolorsoft.com>; public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org
Subject: RE: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

 

Hi Badral,

 

>In this document ai, ei, oi, ui etc. are defined as spoken language spelling and ayi, eyi, oyi, uyi etc. are defined written language spelling. It is totally true.

Thanks a lot. we have consense on this point.

>I don't understand, what did you mean as follows.
>>But the the yi in the medial should encode as  <U+1836, FVS1> if use *yi, could not use any contextual condition to derive from default form.
>We already solved all diphthongs with CALT rules. (without FVSs)


Yes. I was wandering that you or others solved the diphthongs with CALT rules without FVSs.

It is the strongest disagreement point of us from the begining of this discussion. 

 

The reason is for example, 

If you encode the word  ᠰᠠᠢᠬᠠᠨ (SAIQAN)  <U+1830><U+1820><U+1836><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>,  while we encode  ᠰᠠᠢᠬᠠᠨ as <U+1830><U+1820><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>,

how do you encode  ᠰᠠᠶ᠋ᠢᠬᠠᠨ (SAYIQAN)  ? do you go back to encode it as <U+1830><U+1820><U+1836, FVS1><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>.

 

It is nonsensble or self-deceiving way in the some meaning.  

We are absolutely insist to encode the word ᠰᠠᠶ᠋ᠢᠬᠠᠨ (SAYIQAN) as <U+1830><U+1820><U+1836><U+1822><U+182C><U+1820><U+1828>.

It is more sensable, natural, logitic and widely acceptable encoding method thich is our main purpose for this thread. 

There are a lot of this kind of words using regular medial YI in the Mongolian as Siqin committed the list in the Past.

 

I would like to ask you to recheck if my explanition is correct or incorrect ?

 

Our target is not only ask all members to allow us to use ai, ei, oi, ui, oei, uei etc, 

but also we have to reach the aggreement on  not using FVSs for the regularly used form of U+1836_Y and U+1838_W, the default medial form  and .

 

In the document from Inner Mongolia Educational Publishing House have following sentance in Paragraph #5 means that we should encode the regular used and accepted medial form  and as default and without FVSs.

 

Thanks and Best Regards,

 

Jirimutu

===============================================================

Almas Inc. 

101-0021 601 Nitto-Bldg, 6-15-11, Soto-Kanda, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo

E-Mail: jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp>    Mobile : 090-6174-6115

Phone : 03-5688-2081,   Fax : 03-5688-2082

http://www.almas.co.jp/   http://www.compiere-japan.com/

http://www.mongolfont.com/

---------------------------------------------------------------

Inner Mongolia Delehi Information Technology Co. Ltd.

010010 13th floor of Uiles Hotel, No 89 XinHua east street XinCheng District, Hohhot, Inner Mongolia

Mail:  jirimutu@delehi.com <mailto:jirimutu@delehi.com>        Mobile:18647152148

Phone:  +86-471-6661969,      Ofiice: +86-471-6661995

http://www.delehi.com/

===============================================================

 

From: Badral S. [mailto:badral@bolorsoft.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 11:31 PM
To: public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org <mailto:public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org> 
Subject: Re: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

 

Thanks Jirimutu,
In this document ai, ei, oi, ui etc. are defined as spoken language spelling and ayi, eyi, oyi, uyi etc. are defined written language spelling. It is totally true.
I don't understand, what did you mean as follows.
>But the the yi in the medial should encode as  <U+1836, FVS1> if use *yi, could not use any contextual condition to derive from default form.
We already solved all diphthongs with CALT rules. (without FVSs)

Badral

On 04.11.2015 07:39, jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp>  wrote:

Hi Greg and All

 

I have received the stamped version of the interview reply from  Inner Mongolia Educational Publishing House (内蒙古教育出版社).

Let me commit this document to all for reference and archive.

 

Thanks and Best Regards,

 

Jirimutu

===============================================================

Almas Inc. 

101-0021 601 Nitto-Bldg, 6-15-11, Soto-Kanda, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo

E-Mail: jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp>    Mobile : 090-6174-6115

Phone : 03-5688-2081,   Fax : 03-5688-2082

http://www.almas.co.jp/   http://www.compiere-japan.com/

http://www.mongolfont.com/

---------------------------------------------------------------

Inner Mongolia Delehi Information Technology Co. Ltd.

010010 13th floor of Uiles Hotel, No 89 XinHua east street XinCheng District, Hohhot, Inner Mongolia

Mail:  jirimutu@delehi.com <mailto:jirimutu@delehi.com>        Mobile:18647152148

Phone:  +86-471-6661969,      Ofiice: +86-471-6661995

http://www.delehi.com/

===============================================================

 

From: Greg Eck [mailto:greck@postone.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 12:36 AM
To: jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp> ; public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org <mailto:public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org> 
Subject: RE: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

 

Hi Jirimutu,

 

Thanks for the thorough critique …

I am fine with 1-5.

For the latter part of #6, I cannot see the way clearly enough without working directly in the font to verify my/your thoughts at this point in time.

Can you give some examples on #7?

If we could have both spelling methods on #8, that would be a good comparison.

Regarding #9, I think it unreasonable to ask a user to type in an FVS for something as common as a suffix. The context is clear given the NNBSP. OT rulings will be fine here without FVS usage.

#10 should definitely have both A/E variants. This is an area for linguistic engineers probably at a national level to decide on.

 

Thanks,
Greg

 

 

>>>>> 

Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

 

Hi Greg and All,

 

I thinks we have got to final agreement on how to handle the Mongolian Diphthongs.

 

Please correct If I am mistaking anything in my summarize.

 

Firstly Compared to GB 26226-2010, GB 25914-2010 and MB font, MS font in the https://r12a.github.io/scripts/mongolian/variants

1.      We have switched U+1836_Y first medial form ( the default form) to , encoded as <U+1836>,  

2.      We have switched the second medial form of U+1836_Y to , encoded as <U+1836, FVS1>.

3.      We have Switched the first medial form (the default form) of U+1838_W is  ,  encoded as <U+1838>

4.      We have Switched the second medial form of U+1838_W is , encoded as <U+1838, FVS1>

 

5.      For the Mongolian Diphthongs, we will support both theory which is exist or non-exist.

6.      For the Mongolian Diphthongs, one can encode it as ai, ei, ii, oi, ui, oei, uei, as well as ayi, eyi, iyi, oyi, oeyi, ueyi in the medial and ay, ey, iy, oy, oey, uey.

But the the yi in the medial should encode as  <U+1836, FVS1> if use *yi, could not use any contextual condition to derive from default form.

7.      Same to the Mongolian Diphthongs used o, u, oe, ue after vowel. They can be encoded as o, u, oe, ue as well as w, but have to encode as <U+1838, FVS1> if use *w

 

 

8.      I would like to ask our linguists to give out the exact encoding sequence for following case if you use ayi, eyi, iyi, oyi, oeyi, ueyi for Mongolian Diphthongs.

 

ᠨᠠᠢ᠌ᠮᠠ - 

ᠰᠢᠢᠳᠪᠦᠷᠢ - 

ᠦᠢᠯᠡᠰ - 

ᠰᠦᠢᠯᠡᠬᠦ - 

ᠠᠤᠭ᠎ᠠ - 

ᠲᠠᠤᠯᠠᠢ - 

ᠤᠤᠯ - 

…..

 

I am wandering there will be some ambiguous encoding sequence for these word. 

 

9.      There are one issue need to make consensus between our members.

After this change do we need to change the following NNBSP suffixes encoding in DS05 document ?

Because it is using <U+1836> without FVS1. (We are ok to remain as before. We can handle NNBSP in a special rule)

 ᠢᠶᠠᠷ <U+202F><U+1822><U+1836><U+1820><U+1837> 

 ᠢᠶᠡᠷ <U+202F><U+1822><U+1836><U+1821><U+1837>

 ᠢᠶᠠᠨ <U+202F><U+1822><U+1836><U+1820><U+1828> 

 ᠢᠶᠡᠨ <U+202F><U+1822><U+1836><U+1821><U+1828>

 

10.   Do we need to support both possibility for following NNBSP suffixes encoding ? maybe there more than following.

ᠲᠠᠶ <U+202F><U+1832><U+1820><U+1822> 

ᠲᠡᠶ <U+202F><U+1832><U+1821><U+1822>

ᠲᠠᠶᠢᠭᠠᠨ <U+202F><U+1832><U+1820><U+1836><U+1822><U+182D><U+1820><U+1828> 

ᠲᠡᠶᠢᠭᠡᠨ<U+202F><U+1832><U+1821><U+1836><U+1822><U+182D><U+1821><U+1828>

 

>>>>>>>>>>>> 





-- 
Badral Sanlig, Software architect
www.bolorsoft.com <http://www.bolorsoft.com>  | www.badral.net <http://www.badral.net> 
Bolorsoft LLC, Selbe Khotkhon 40/4 D2, District 11, Ulaanbaatar

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Received on Thursday, 5 November 2015 01:13:30 UTC

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