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Re: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks

From: Jargal <bjargal@mail.ru>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2015 15:06:37 +0900
Cc: Badral S. <badral@bolorsoft.com>, "public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org" <public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org>
Message-Id: <77C85135-549B-4134-88F1-7FC0914EBC65@mail.ru>
To: Greg Eck <greck@postone.net>
Dear all,

I has joined the discussion only a couple of days ago. Still looking through to grasp the tails.

I would suggest dividing input and actual representation (both visual and internal (i.e. encoding level) representations).
The input can be done with IMEs. But the main feature of mongolian script which doesn't normally allow two or more vowels to co-occur without a consonant inserted in-between is to be followed. This for example resulted in transcription of Ch. yuan as WMo yuwan, etc.
I think that it might have profound influence on the way future generations think about the nature of Mongolian Script.
There is a long and established tradition in Mongolian philology to interpret Mongolian diphthongs as ayi, eyi, etc. in non-final and as ai, ei, etc. in word final positions. Hence noqai-yin and not noqay-un. It makes sense to stick to this elaborate interpretation of a scholarly tradition. Because in other positions you have to follow the 'consonant insertion' rule as in qariy_a, gabiy_a (the underscore stands for MVS), or above mentioned yuwan. So to keep consistency of interpretation it is good to interpret diphthongs as VCV clusters.

Summing up I would suggest to interpret the diphthongs as ayi, eyi, oyi, uyi, yi in non-final position and as ai, ei, ui, i in final position.

yi should be dealt with OpenType rules  which would yield a positional variant with two 'long teeth' instead of three.
For the sake of consistency it is good to recommend users to type all non first syllable 'gedes' as u or  depending on word's vowel harmony.

The raw input will be a bit difficult for most people and it is normal for the script as complex as Mongolian. To make it easier and faster it will be great to have an IME which produces consistently encoded sequences according to a standard. For example both heleh and helehu would result in 182C 1821 182F 1821 182C 1826, moNgul and moNgol in 182E 1823 1829 182D 1824 182F, ayil and ail in 1820 1836 1822 182F.

By interpreting all non first syllable 'gedes' as u or  we make it much easier to type without IMEs (in case it sometimes might be necessary) resulting in a consistent output which ultimately improves end-user's searching experience.

Best regards,
Jargal Badagarov


On Oct 15, 2015, at 11:38 AM, Greg Eck <greck@postone.net> wrote:

> Erdenechimeg,
> Could you comment on this one also?
> Thanks much,
> Greg
>  
>  
> From: Badral S. [mailto:badral@bolorsoft.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 10:29 AM
> To: public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org
> Subject: Re: Two Final Threads - Diphthongs / Final glyph checks
>  
> Hi,
> I totally agree. It seems also compatible with cyrillic grammar.
> 
> Badral
> 
> On 15.10.2015 03:26, siqin wrote:
> Greg,
> 
> You are right,
> 
> Jirimutu means
> mongolian diphthongs as
>     ai, ei, oi, ui, Oi, Ui
> not as
>     ayi, eyi, oyi, uyi, Oyi, Uyi
> or
>     ay, ey, oy, uy, Oy, Uy
> 
> <image001.png>
> 
> On 2015/10/14 23:55, Greg Eck wrote:
> Jirimutu,
> Then we are looking at the following image (just to make sure there is no mistake due to a font mis-shaping
>  
> >>>>> 
> <image002.png>
> >>>>> 
>  
> Greg
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Badral Sanlig, Software architect
> www.bolorsoft.com | www.badral.net
> Bolorsoft LLC, Selbe Khotkhon 40/4 D2, District 11, Ulaanbaatar


Received on Thursday, 15 October 2015 06:58:23 UTC

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