- From: siqin <siqin@almas.co.jp>
- Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2015 11:32:03 +0900
- To: Greg Eck <greck@postone.net>, "public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org" <public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <55DBD3A3.4000001@almas.co.jp>
Hi Greg, > MediGa03 – ADGAU/ADGAQU – by Professor Quejingzhabu’s rulings (see my > OverRide rulings) the GA should be undotted after DA/SA. In my > opinion, this is a mis-spelling in the dictionary. I rather hope this is a mis-spelling in the dictionary. But most Traditional Mongolian dictionaries spelling these words as with two dots. sd_ga_with_dots11.jpg sd_ga_with_dots12.jpg sd_ga_with_dots21.jpg sd_ga_with_dots22.jpg sd_ga_with_dots31.jpg sd_ga_with_dots32.jpg sd_ga_with_dots41.jpg sd_ga_with_dots42.jpg Even all of the dictionaries mis-spelling these words, there is exception in compound word like sd_ga_with_dots51.jpg > FinalGa01 – Siqin, could you look at this example again. I am not sure > how it applies. This is not example. I only want to explain the meaning of the word final_ga_exception2.png. SiqinBilige. On 2015/08/24 22:58, Greg Eck wrote: > > Thanks again Siqin for your input. > > Here are a few comments on Siqin’s 6 examples: > > MediGa01 – By the rules in the OverRide paper submitted earlier plus > Siqin’s notes on the S/D + Medial GA case, this does not need the > over-ride FVS as it is a medial GA preceded by a SA. > > MediGa02 – By the rules in the OverRide paper submitted earlier plus > Siqin’s notes on the S/D + Medial GA case, this does not need the > over-ride FVS as it is a medial GA preceded by a DA. > > MediGa03 – ADGAU/ADGAQU – by Professor Quejingzhabu’s rulings (see my > OverRide rulings) the GA should be undotted after DA/SA. In my > opinion, this is a mis-spelling in the dictionary. *Badral, > Erdenechimeg, Siqin, and others, could you comment on this spelling?* > > *Siqin, if we need to over-ride context to get the medial GA dotted, > we already have the FVS1 firmly assigned there, so that should not be > a problem.* > > FinalGa01 – Siqin, could you look at this example again. I am not sure > how it applies. > > FinalGa02 – I know that Baiti would pass this as a masculine word and > therefore would not need the over-ride FVS. We need a foreign word > that has no masculine vowels (AOU). *Can others comment on how their > font would handle this text sequence?* > > FinalGa03 – QODAL SIG – Good, we can use this example > > We have a strong case for the Final GA over-ride. The FVS assignment > has been on record since the TR170 plus the MGWBM. Plus we have > examples. *More examples are welcome.* > > I am still not sure that we have a case for the Medial GA undotted > over-ride FVS. *More thoughts here … ?* > > Greg > > *From:*siqin [mailto:siqin@almas.co.jp] > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2015 11:29 AM > *To:* Greg Eck <greck@postone.net>; public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org > *Subject:* Re: FVS Assignment Mismatch WrapUp > > Hi Greg, > > ·182D Medial – given the case where the contextual rules for the > dual dots must be over-ridden. In other words, the context > dictates that the medial GA is dotted, however, the actual shaping > of the word is desired without the dots. I have not had the time > to track down examples for this. > > I did not face with this case in my font implementation experiment. > It may be : > There is a grammar rule which the two dots will be omitted if > g(182D) follows s(1830) and d(1833) in Traditional Mongolian. > ( The most dictionaries spell it as QA and read it as GA. ) > medi_ga_exception1.png > medi_ga_exception2.png > But there is a exception > medi_ga_exception3.png > So, if over-ridden is needed, the doted GA, not the undoted one. I > think. > > ·182D Final – given the case where the feminine final GA does not > follow the common pattern of sweeping to the left, but however > sweeps to the right. In other words, the word is composed of > feminine vowels, but carries a masculine right-ward swept tail. > From discussions with Professor Quejngzhabu, I understand that > there are just a small subset of words (5-6 in quantity) that > follow this pattern. > > See > final_ga_exception1.png > final_ga_exception2.png > final_ga_exception3.png (?) > > SiqinBilige > > On 2015/08/24 0:19, Greg Eck wrote: > > I am ready to wrap up the discussion on FVS Assignment Mismatch. > > However I am still lacking good examples on two of the over-rides > discussed ... > > ·182D Medial – given the case where the contextual rules for the > dual dots must be over-ridden. In other words, the context > dictates that the medial GA is dotted, however, the actual shaping > of the word is desired without the dots. I have not had the time > to track down examples for this. > > ·182D Final – given the case where the feminine final GA does not > follow the common pattern of sweeping to the left, but however > sweeps to the right. In other words, the word is composed of > feminine vowels, but carries a masculine right-ward swept tail. > From discussions with Professor Quejngzhabu, I understand that > there are just a small subset of words (5-6 in quantity) that > follow this pattern. > > ·I am attaching two files showing data sets for the non-over-ride > cases here. > > *Erdenechimeg, Siqin, I wonder if you or others can help find some > good examples that we can state in this regard? Your examples > before were so helpful. We have some good examples for the 1822 > medial single-tooth over-ride with NAIMA (“eight”). Also, we have > a good set with the 1828 undotted medial over-ride. But we are > still lacking for the two cases of the 182D GA as listed above. > Anything we can document here will be helpful.* > > Thanks, > Greg > > PS Our next topic will be Isolates – an exhaustive overview > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Eck [mailto:greck@postone.net] > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 6:14 PM > To: Richard Wordingham <richard.wordingham@ntlworld.com> > <mailto:richard.wordingham@ntlworld.com>; > public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org <mailto:public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org> > Subject: RE: Reference Scheme for Mongolian Rendering > > Hi Richard, > > Attached please find the rules for the four over-rides. > > I did this a bit fast, everyone please look over carefully to see > if I made a mistake. > > Thanks, > > Greg > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Richard Wordingham [mailto:richard.wordingham@ntlworld.com] > > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 8:56 AM > > To: public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org <mailto:public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org> > > Subject: Reference Scheme for Mongolian Rendering > > Looking at Greg's list of data sets (DS...) in his post of > Saturday 8th August ('Mongolian Variation Sequences Missing from > Unicode 8.00 Code Chart', > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-mongolian/2015JulSep/0248.html > > ), we are missing two important items: > > 1) A reference scheme for rendering. I offer one in the attachment > rendering_framework.odt. > > 2) The rules for contextual forms that may be overridden by > variation selectors. Without these rules, we do not know whether > we have an adequate set of variation selectors for rendering > connected text. > > I am trying to identify the contextual rules, though I am not the > best person for the job. NNBSP has me worried. Do we need to > identify suffix rules for every language that might conceivably be > written in the Mongolian script with separated suffixes? > > Richard. >
Attachments
- image/jpeg attachment: sd_ga_with_dots11.jpg
- image/jpeg attachment: sd_ga_with_dots12.jpg
- image/jpeg attachment: sd_ga_with_dots21.jpg
- image/jpeg attachment: sd_ga_with_dots22.jpg
- image/jpeg attachment: sd_ga_with_dots31.jpg
- image/jpeg attachment: sd_ga_with_dots32.jpg
- image/jpeg attachment: sd_ga_with_dots41.jpg
- image/jpeg attachment: sd_ga_with_dots42.jpg
- image/jpeg attachment: sd_ga_with_dots51.jpg
Received on Tuesday, 25 August 2015 02:32:34 UTC