- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:09:06 +0900
- To: public-i18n-its@w3.org
- Message-ID: <4418C8C2.2030809@w3.org>
Hi,
The minutes of yesterday's call are at
http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html
and below as text.
Cheers,
Felix
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
i18n ITS working group
15 Mar 2006
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0186.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-irc
Attendees
Present
Andrzej, Christian, Felix, Goutam, Richard, Sebastian, Yves
Regrets
Diane
Chair
Yves
Scribe
Felix
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]action items
2. [6]Mandelieu proposals
3. [7]next face-to-face
4. [8]on the mapping discussion
* [9]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
action items
<scribe> ACTION: Tag set editors to integrate discussion result
about bugs 2881,2,3 (ONGOING) [recorded in
[10]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
<scribe> ACTION: Yves to work on XHTML + ITS modularization
(ONGOING) [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
[12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0
298.html
[12]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0298.html
Sebastian: This is an illustration, just an example how the rules
might work
Yves: yes, esp. for the DTD it is hard to create hard defined rules
Sebastian: The more important question is how to get it in the DTD
Yves: if you change the DTD, it is no longer XHTML
Sebastian: Maybe the prose could say "this is a DTD which cannot be
changed. This shows why we need external rules"
Yves: and you can use the HTML @class attribute to use
translatability local
<scribe> ACTION: All to read and comment on RI's notes (ONGOING)
[recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
Yves: we have to come back to this after talking about the Mandelieu
proposals
<scribe> ACTION: All comment on Mandelieu 9 proposals ('agree' or
'need discussion') (DONE) [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
<scribe> ACTION: Editor's of the techniques document: give examples
how to use its:locInfoRef (decide on distinction of "alert" versus
"description") (PENDING) [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]
<scribe> ACTION: Richard to describe an additional level of
conformance for Ruby (PENDING) [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to update bugzilla with open issues.
(DROPPED) [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]
<scribe> ACTION: Christian and Felix need to update their result of
conformance discussion in the spec. (ONGOING) [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]
Felix: not finished, but we have a good agreement on how to go
Mandelieu proposals
Yves: we had discussion on editor call, and discussion between
Richard and Felix
<YvesS>
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0
283.html
[19]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0283.html
Yves: these are the final proposals
proposal01 and proposal02
Christian: just an observation
... also, using names of elements might be more difficult than
attributes
Sebastian: as you implement this, element names might be more
natural
... as for CSS, we could have a selector on documentRule, to have
similar grouping
Yves: would that be an improvement?
Sebastian: If you want to express multiple bits of information about
the same information
Felix: would that not be more verbose?
<rahtz> <its:documentRules>
<rahtz> <its:ruleSelector="//trans">
<rahtz> <its:translateRule its:translate="no"/>
<rahtz> <its:documentRule its:translate="no"/>
<rahtz> </its:ruleSelector>
<rahtz> <its:ruleSelector="/body/p[$1\47]/@foo">
<rahtz> <its:translateRule its:term="yes"/>
<rahtz> </its:ruleSelector>
<rahtz> </its:documentRules>
Felix: how about putting this as a remark in the draft, and ask for
feedback?
Yves: how about having this as an remark in the next draft and look
for feedback?
Sebastian: it would make the XHTML example more verbose maybe
Yves: the change might be necessary for translatability, term, ruby
... actually the different data categories rarely overlap
<scribe> ACTION: put a note on the proposal for grouping data
categories in next working draft [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]
Sebastian: One motivation for this was validation
<rahtz> <its:documentRules>
<rahtz> <its:ruleSelector="//trans">
<rahtz> <its:translateRule its:translate="no"/>
<rahtz> </its:ruleSelector>
<rahtz> <its:ruleSelector="/body/p[$1\47]/@foo">
<rahtz> <its:term="yes"/>
<rahtz> </its:ruleSelector>
<rahtz> <its:translateMap select="//*/@trans"/>
<rahtz> </its:documentRules>
Yves: we need to make decisions on some proposals
... everybody happy with implementing proposal 1 and 2? taking
Sebastians example in the draft as a note into account?
Sebastian: I would like to go ahead with this
Yves: proposal 1 and 2 accepted
proposal 3
Yves: everybody agreed on that
Sebastian: one worry:
... people might put markup into the <locInfo> element
... we could have a remark "currently we support only unicode
characters", no content
Felix: is this necessary for this specific element
Richard: we are putting this in an element because of i18n issues
like bidi
Felix: valid points. But maybe we should discuss its:span, and then
use the same stuff for the <locInfo> element
Yves: but everybody is happy about having an element?
Christian: one concern:
... here we do not use attributes
Felix: that's no issue since this is global usage
Yves: accept the proposal?
proposal 03 accepted
proposal 04:
Have an attribute @its:locInfoRef for localization information
globally/locally
Sebastian: URIs make it easy to refer to anything in the same
document or a different document
Christian: My concern is: if we allow pointers
... they might no longer be valid as some localization work has been
done
Yves: valid point
Sebastian: saying "#somepoint" does not say what the starting point
is
Felix: that can be resolved if you make it clear in the spec
... but is this not a general XML problem?
Yves: how is this useful for loc info?
Sebastian: you could point to wikipedia
Yves: we have the same mechanism with termref, so both should work
the same way
Richard: with termref, you point only to a term and to a
termReference
... with locinfo, you only have localization info
Felix: the implementations are the same: you identify s.t. as "term"
or as "subject to locinfo", and add a reference to it
Richard: could you point to the same node?
Yves: that is only possible globally
... if we would have locinforef, we should have locinforefmap as
well
... could we have locinforef in the spec for now?
Richard: yes
proposal 04 for now accepted
Yves: now no. 05: mapping mechanism
... original idea was to provide a mapping for each data category
... the concern some of us had that you would have an extra
mechanism in many places
Sebastian: how do you deal if you want to have everything in one
namespace? you would need to map everything
... we argued in Canne against this in verbosity
... I argued for clearness of implementation
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to start the discussion on not having mapping
for the translatability and the dir category on the mailing list;
everybody please participate [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]
next face-to-face
Yves: people who come please let me know
on the mapping discussion
yves: need to continue that on friday
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Felix to start the discussion on not having mapping
for the translatability and the dir category on the mailing list;
everybody please participate [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: put a note on the proposal for grouping data
categories in next working draft [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: All to read and comment on RI's notes [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Christian and Felix need to update their result of
conformance discussion in the spec. [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: Editor's of the techniques document: give examples
how to use its:locInfoRef (decide on distinction of "alert" versus
"description") [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: Richard to describe an additional level of
conformance for Ruby [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: Tag set editors to integrate discussion result
about bugs 2881,2,3 [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Yves to work on XHTML + ITS modularization
[recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
[DONE] ACTION: All comment on Mandelieu 9 proposals ('agree' or
'need discussion') [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
[DROPPED] ACTION: Felix to update bugzilla with open issues.
[recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2006/03/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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$Date: 2006/03/16 02:06:49 $
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Received on Thursday, 16 March 2006 02:09:21 UTC