- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:50:39 +0900
- To: public-i18n-its@w3.org
- Message-ID: <43F412AF.2030109@w3.org>
Hi all,
Here are the minutes of yesterday's call
http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html
And below as text.
Cheers,
Felix
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
i18n ITS working group
15 Feb 2006
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0103.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-irc
Attendees
Present
Diane, Christian, Felix, Goutam, Sebastian, Yves
Regrets
Andrzej, Damian, Richard
Chair
Yves
Scribe
Felix
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]action items
2. [6]time table
3. [7]segmentation
4. [8]<span> element
5. [9]on segmentation (part 2)
6. [10]Business benefit
7. [11]editors call
8. [12]f2f in May
* [13]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
action items
<scribe> ACTION: All to look at conformance tests and give comments
(DONE) [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
yves: we got some comments
... I have not answered the last mail from Felix
... we should make a distinction between people who write schemas,
versus people who process s.t. with ITS
... the schema writers want to support all data categories
... the processing implementor
... wants to have only one data category
Sebastian: why a partical conformance in the schema?
Christian: we had discussions like this
... people said we don't want to see a large markup scheme
Felix: would 20 attributes be too much?
Christian: I don't know
Sebastian: We should not say that some data cats are more important
than others
Felix: what would happen if a translate attribute is already in the
schema?
Sebastian: So if I have a translate attribute, I would have to use
documentRule?
Yves: So you would need a mapping?
Sebastian: Maybe we need to group the data categories
Yves: one part of ITS is i18n, e.g. bidi
(long discussion on conformance, sorry for not scribing. No
conclusion so far; we will continue the discussion on the mailing
list)
<scribe> ACTION: All to give feedback on new sections 3.1 and 3.2,
until Friday (DONE) [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
<scribe> ACTION: All to think of how to organize examples inside and
outside the specification (ONGOING) [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
<scribe> ACTION: continue conformance discussion on the mailing list
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to add a strong statement on the top of the
document about "editors" copy (PENDING) [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to implement the tests for directionality
(DONE) [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]
felix: implemented in xquery
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to make a telecon schedule with zakim (DONE)
[recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]
<scribe> ACTION: Christian and Felix to provide examples for tests,
and see if we can come up with a common set of conformance levels
(ONGOING) [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]
<scribe> ACTION: Christian to write a non-normative section on
selection, at the beginning of the scope section. (DONE) [recorded
in [22]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]
<scribe> ACTION: Everybody to read the spec and comment on the spec
until the publication date (ONGOING) [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]
<scribe> ACTION: Owners of the modularizations to keep working on
them. (ONGOING) [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action11]
yves: Damian is working with somebody on the relation ITS -
OpenDocument
... I have not worked too much on DocBook
... TEI?
Sebastian: I have uploaded new files on the test page
Felix: How about the xmlspec section? Should we take it out?
Yves: we could keep it for now
... it does not harm
Sebastian: It is an example of how ITS would go in an DTD
Christian: I looked at DITA with the term data category
Yves: XHTML?
Sebastian: Norman said he will be at the tech plenary, we could push
on him
Yves: good idea, I will write s.t. before Nice on DocBook
<scribe> ACTION: Yves to send s.t. on docbook before the tech
plenary to the list [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action12]
yves: I tried XHTML
... it is very nice
... I would like to describe how to integrate ITS markup into XHTML
... they have an example how to integrate MathML, but that makes the
document invalid
Felix: should this be part of the last call?
Yves: I will do DocBook
Felix: I will do xmlspec
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to write a mail to a list: who wants to
describe the modularizations until the last call? [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action13]
time table
Felix: we might have problems to exit last call (which starts around
20 May), if we get many comments
Yves: we have to be finished until mid may with LC
segmentation
Yves: if you process a document
... you need to separate different runs of texts
... e.g. a distinction between a para in a footnote and a separate
para
<YvesS> [27]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0601ReqInlineElements
[27] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0601ReqInlineElements
Yves: two problems:
... to identify elements with mixed content
... versus elements without content
... e.g. <p> versus <li>
... if you have a schema, it is not difficult to separate these two
... the problem is to decide: what starts a segment?
... e.g. a footnote vs. a paragraph?
... my idea is to have two attributes: list of elements with text /
without text
... and with elements that start segments
... with that you should be able to process the file and distingush
the segments
sebastian: how will you express the list?
Yves: I just had a list of element names
... Felix described XPath expressions
Sebastian: how about a note in one place which is different from one
in another place?
... why not making this another data category, that you can attach
this to any element?
Yves: good idea
Sebastian: If I want to say s.t. about 10 elements:
... that sounds to me like 10 documentRule elements
Yves: so instead of a list the same as with e.g. translate?
Sebastian: I think you could do the same with documentRules
... and could avoid a new syntax
Felix: I would propose to use the documentRules syntax
Yves: the implementation view point is that you have a lot of
occurences
... so your application will get much slower
Sebastian: You don't have to implement it by decorating a DOM
... e.g. if you say the root element is translatable, all nodes are
decorated with "inerited"
... the list contains lists of elements, so is not the same as with
selector attributes?
<span> element
Yves: the span element
Felix: I would write s.t. like that, you could comment via mail
Yves: it changes nothing, only the way ITS namespace is treated
<scribe> ACTION: felix to integrate <span> element until tomorrow
into the draft [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action14]
on segmentation (part 2)
Christian: Should we call this segmentation or inline?
Yves: I got some feedback that segmentation is better
Business benefit
<YvesS>
[29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0
089.html
[29]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0089.html
Felix: would it be o.k. to give it personally to participants from
the Berlin meeting?
Yves: maybe it is very concentrated on translatability
Felix: the audience would be mainly localization people
editors call
Felix: this call would be useful for all people who edit all
documents
... to work out the wording
Yves: so regulary two times a week?
Christian: Friday would be better for me
Yves: so how about Friday at four?
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to make a weekly schedule with Zakim for ITS
editor's call [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action15]
f2f in May
Yves: I need to know the dates soon
Some possible dates:
16-19 May 2006: XTECH, Amsterdam
21-22 May: AC meeting, Edinburgh
23-26 May : WWW 2006, Edinburgh
22-28 May 2006: LREC, Portugal
29-30 May (noon): LSGB conference (follow up from Berlin meeting),
Barcelona
Sebastian:
[[I cannot leave the UK until May 14th, and have meetings in Kyoto
on 17, 18 and 19. So in practice I could only do a day on 16, or
have to wait until 22nd-24th.]]
discussion about the dates. result: end of May, beginning of June.
possibly in France. possibly hosted by SAP. Christian will check
Yves: tentative date:
31 May, 1st and 2nd June
Yves: maybe in Paris
... or somewhere else in Europe
Christian: Heidelberg?
Yves: how about trying Barcelona?
Christian: SAP might have a host in Barcelona as well
Hi Diane, this is the link to localization world in Barcelona:
[31]http://www.localizationworld.com/
[31] http://www.localizationworld.com/
<diane> thanks
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: continue conformance discussion on the mailing list
[recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: felix to integrate element until tomorrow into the
draft [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action14]
[NEW] ACTION: Felix to make a weekly schedule with Zakim for ITS
editor's call [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action15]
[NEW] ACTION: Felix to write a mail to a list: who wants to describe
the modularizations until the last call? [recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to send s.t. on docbook before the tech plenary
to the list [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: All to think of how to organize examples inside
and outside the specification [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Christian and Felix to provide examples for tests,
and see if we can come up with a common set of conformance levels
[recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: Everybody to read the spec and comment on the spec
until the publication date [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: Felix to add a strong statement on the top of the
document about "editors" copy [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: Owners of the modularizations to keep working on
them. [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action11]
[DONE] ACTION: All to look at conformance tests and give comments
[recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
[DONE] ACTION: Christian to write a non-normative section on
selection, at the beginning of the scope section. [recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]
[DONE] ACTION: Felix to implement the tests for directionality
[recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]
[DONE] ACTION: Felix to make a telecon schedule with zakim [recorded
in [45]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]
[DONE] ACTION: All to give feedback on new sections 3.1 and 3.2,
until Friday [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 16 February 2006 05:50:49 UTC