- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 00:14:45 +0900 (JST)
- To: public-i18n-core@w3.org
... are at http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html and below as
text.
Regards, Felix.
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
i18n core working group
16 May 2006
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2006May/0010.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-irc
Attendees
Present
Felix, Francois, Karunesh, Richard, Vijay
Regrets
Chair
Francois
Scribe
Felix
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]action items
2. [6]i18n activity restructuring
3. [7]first letter discussion
4. [8]other business
* [9]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
ation items
<scribe> ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather
feedback (ONGOING) [recorded in
[10]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]
francois: no new feedback
... this will be ongoing
<scribe> ACTION: all to give feedback on the LTLI draft (ONGOING)
[recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]
<scribe> ACTION: Francois, ping Martin about when we can make the
tests public (DONE) [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]
francois: did hear from Martin
... all pages are no accessible
... as for hosting: that will be o.k. as well
Richard: problem is: we need somebody to edit it or change s.t.
... in the W3C side, everybody can do that
Francois: there are system dependencies which are part of the tests
Richard: we could probably do that in W3C as well
... another problem: How to accept tests from his Organization
... since they are not a member of W3C?
... again a patent policy problem
Francois: do we say *we* maintain a test suite?
"as soon as the following conditions are met:": no need for *us* to
procude the test suite
francois: so no requirement to have a W3C test suite
... for XML we have a test suite. It was hosted by MIT
... NIST is a member, and there were some processes to accept that
as a contribution.
Richard: one question: is a non w3c test suite sufficient to get
through CR?
<r12a> three main possible scenarios:
<r12a> [$1\47] stays on martin\s servers and just point to those
tests over there to fulfill CR criteria
<r12a> [$1\47] stays on martins servers, but we call them W3C tests
<r12a> [$1\47] move the tests to W3C servers so taht we can handle
maintenance more easily
<r12a> each scenario 1 -3 probably involves increasing
administrative complexity
<r12a> ACTION: RI, FS, determine what is the minimal course
necessary to pass CR [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]
felix: I will send a mail to plh
<fyergeau> Correction: XML test suite is now hosted at W3C
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to find out where the tests from Martin are
(DROPPED) [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]
francois: I mentioned to Martin a start / presentation page, he said
it would be a good idea
<scribe> ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu
on ws-i18n [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]
<scribe> ACTION: Mary to review [16]http://www.w3.org/TR/its/ after
18 May before 30 June (ONGOING) [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]
[16] http://www.w3.org/TR/its/
<scribe> ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
norm (PENDING) [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to implement discussion results from the
i18n-comments list (DONE) [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to create examples for defined terms (DONE)
[recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action10]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to ask for a review extension for WCAG (DONE)
[recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action11]
i18n activity restructuring
Richard: we thought of i18n activity restructuring
... which AC reps at the AC meeting will see
... it is a discussion, not decided yet
<r12a> [22]http://www.w3.org/International/Activity.html
[22] http://www.w3.org/International/Activity.html
richard: take a look at the bottom of the document
... benefit is both for core and the spec work
... key benefit: we have been slowing with charmod because we have
other stuff on the radar
... on the other hand, spec work sometimes takes time from the
review work
... separating out the core work from the specification work will
help a lot
... web services work will probably be finished very quickly
Francois: What will happen for specs which are a REC?
richard: we have to think about that as well
Francois: I like the proposal, only life after REC needs to be made
clearer
... if there is a version 2.0 of a spec and there is a working
group, that's o.k.
richard: we will also stagger meetings / telefone conferences
... e.g. a charmod call every two weeks
... key benefit would be that work on specific topics is more
focused, not distracted by other topics
francois: so the new core working group will be not under patent
policy?
richard: yes
... it would be beneficial to many people who want to join core
francois: one problem: this goes for the AC, and there is a call for
participation
... there is a risc that there is not enough participation to start
a working group
richard: for core that's no risk, we have the GEO folks
... for the ws working group, we need to have enough support to
generate a working group
... I think we don't need to have a huge working group
... as for charmod, it would be maybe only three people
... everybody fine with the proposal?
... (people on this call)
no objection
<karuneshvijay> yes
topics: LTLI
Francois: Felix implemented many changes
Felix: Addison send new comments, please have a look
Francois: so we send a publication request on Thursday
... anything else on LTLI?
... nice to see the progress, if you have comments, please send them
in
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to send a re-publication request for the LTLI
draft on Thursday [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action12]
first letter discussion
Richard: it is a pseudo element
francois: there was a call for details, and a lot of mail about the
Indic languages
... discussion on the www-international list
... should we write a Note about this?
... the CSS people seem to be very reluctant to make changes
Richard: Erika and I talked about it
... she asked me about (indic) examples, but not major changes for
the spec
... maybe we should push for a stronger wording
Francois: the examples show that "first letter, just one unicode
character" is not sufficient
Richard: the default grapheme cluster rule would not cope with
Indian scripts, would it?
Francois: I'm not sure
... this should be checked
Richard: currently we say:
Richard quotes the current texts on "first letter"
<r12a> original text:
<r12a> Some languages may have specific rules about how to treat
certain letter
<r12a> # combinations. In Dutch, for example, if the letter
combination "ij" appears
<r12a> # at the beginning of a word, both letters should be
considered within the
<r12a> # :first-letter pseudo-element.
<r12a> first proposal:
<r12a> Note: In some cases the :first-letter pseudo-element should
include more
<r12a> than just the first non-punctuation code point on a line. For
example,
<r12a> combining characters must be kept with their base character.
Additionally,
<r12a> some languages may have specific rules about how to treat
certain letter
<r12a> combinations. In Dutch, for example, if the letter
combination "ij"
<r12a> appears at the beginning of an element, both letters should
be considered
<r12a> within the ::first-letter pseudo-element. The UA should
include at least
<r12a> the entire default grapheme cluster as defined by [UAX 29
Text Boundaries]
<r12a> and may include more than that as appropriate.
Francois: we where proposing "default grapheme cluster" as the base
line
... they (CSS group) did not want to have that as a normative part,
which is regretable
... because it does not cover many common things
... maybe we should push back now
Richard: karunesh, Vijay, is where a language specific varitation of
what a first letter is?
... in latin scripts, there is language specific variations on how
first letters shoud be treated, e.g. "ij" in Dutch
... the question is: are there language specific variations of first
letter styling for various indic scripts?
Karunesh: If you use Dev., the rules would be the same
... the situation might be different for other (indic)scripts
... the grapheme cluster seems to be an approriate unit
karunesh gives some examples
Richard: gathering this information sounds interesting
Karunesh: we are investigating from many specialists
Richard: Should we set up a wiki for this?
Francois: good idea
Karunesh: wiki sounds also good to me
Richard: would be good to involve the Unicode list
... many people on that list could make some input on this
... I'll put out another blog entry on this, which will point to the
new wiki, and send a mail to the Unicode list about this
<scribe> ACTION: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter", post a
blog and write a mail to the Unicode list about it [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action13]
other business
francois: next week no meeting
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Felix to send a re-publication request for the LTLI
draft on Thursday [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu on
ws-i18n [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: RI, FS, determine what is the minimal course necessary
to pass CR [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter", post a
blog and write a mail to the Unicode list about it [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action13]
[ONGOING] ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather
feedback [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: all to give feedback on the LTLI draft [recorded
in [30]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod
norm [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mary to review [32]http://www.w3.org/TR/its/ after
18 May before 30 June [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]
[32] http://www.w3.org/TR/its/
[DONE] ACTION: Francois, ping Martin about when we can make the
tests public [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]
[DONE] ACTION: Felix to ask for a review extension for WCAG
[recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action11]
[DONE] ACTION: Felix to create examples for defined terms [recorded
in [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action10]
[DONE] ACTION: Felix to implement discussion results from the
i18n-comments list [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]
[DROPPED] ACTION: Felix to find out where the tests from Martin are
[recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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Received on Tuesday, 16 May 2006 15:21:15 UTC