Re: <option>'s alignment and dir Re: Additional Requirements for Bidi in HTML - open issues

> This translates to making "match-parent" the default text-align value for
<ol> and <ul>.

Actually, I should have said "the default text-align value for <li>".

On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Aharon (Vladimir) Lanin <aharon@google.com
> wrote:

> > Firefox's behavior is correct per spec: the computed value of
> 'text-align'
> > is the specified keyword, and the computed value, not the used or actual
> > value, is what's inherited in CSS.
> >  http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#text-align
> >  http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/cascade.html#value-stages
> > Your suggestion for a 'match-parent' keyword that computes to the
> parent's
> > effective alignment seems like a good idea, though.
>
> I am ok with this reading of the spec - if we really can add the
> "match-parent" to it. (I had called it "inherit" because there seems to be
> mention of it in some places, e.g. <
> http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_text_text-align.asp>, but that's probably
> a good reason not to call it that...) "match-parent" is a little verbose,
> though. Perhaps "frozen"?
>
>
>
> >> The <select> is a case in point. With Firefox's approach to text-align,
> >> once dir and text-align on <option> are fully supported, to get
> >> different-dir options to line up, one will have to use text-align with
> some
> >> absolute value, e.g. text-align:left on the <select>. That is a problem,
> >> since one has to change the HTML depending on whether the page
> >> overall is ltr or rtl.
>
> > Above would solve it should that what you want.
>
> Just to make sure I understand: you are saying that given text-align:start
> working according to Firefox rules, but with the addition of "match-parent"
> (or whatever) to text-align's vocubulary, <select
> style="text-align:match-parent"> will keep all the options uniformly aligned
> despite changes in direction. I agree.
>
>
> > I just claim that is not, typically, what I would want.
>
> And here, I guess you (Shachar) are saying that you prefer each option to
> be aligned to its own direction? Is this correct?
>
> If so, that is what I meant by competing preferences. I find options
> changing alignment disconcerting and difficult to read.
>
> I wonder, what did you think of the proposal's section on lists (3.10, <
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-bidi/#lists>), which basically said that the
> location of the bullet or number should follow the list's - and not the list
> item's - direction? (There was subsequent discussion that said that this
> should become controlled by a new style property, but that is not the issue
> right now.) There was then a proposal (<
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-bidi/2010AprJun/0006.html>)
> to make the list item's alignment by default follow the list's alignment,
> and not the list item's direction. This translates to making "match-parent"
> the default text-align value for <ol> and <ul>. Is this not to your taste as
> well?
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Shachar Shemesh <shachar@shemesh.biz>wrote:
>
>>  Aharon (Vladimir) Lanin wrote:
>>
>>
>> Actually, there seems to be a problem with the inheritance of "start" and
>> "end" when the descendant without an explicit text-align changes direction:
>> WebKit and Firefox implement it quite differently. Thus, if we have:
>>
>> <body style="text-align:start>
>> <div dir="rtl">
>> hello
>> </div>
>> </body>
>>
>> Chrome 5.0.375.38 and Safari 4.05  make the "hello" be left-aligned,
>> according to the "start" of the element where the text-align:start was set.
>>
>> Firefox 3.6.3 makes it right-aligned, or according to its element's own
>> start edge.
>>
>> Obviously, the spec should clearly specify the correct approach. (Perhaps
>> it already does. I have to admit that I did not take the time to look at it.
>> That lets me have my own opinion more easily :-))
>>
>>  I haven't read the specs either, but the very fact it is called "start",
>> and not "right", seem to suggest (to me) that Firefox got it right (pun
>> intended).
>>
>>  My current opinion is that I prefer Webkit's interpretation as the more
>> useful: where one wants the alignment to get re-set according to direction,
>> one explicitly sets text-align:start. Where one wants the alignment to stay
>> as it was, one does not do anything. Firefox's approach gives no good way to
>> leave the alignment alone when changing the direction.
>>
>> Both approaches might be confusing under certain circumstances. Common
>> sense dictates that if an attribute is inherited, specifying it to
>> explicitly be the same as the parent would not change anything. Your
>> suggestion breaks that.
>>
>> I agree that, in general, the problem needs to be addressed. I think that
>> your "inherited" suggestion is the way to go.
>>
>>
>> The <select> is a case in point. With Firefox's approach to text-align,
>> once dir and text-align on <option> are fully supported, to get
>> different-dir options to line up, one will have to use text-align with some
>> absolute value, e.g. text-align:left on the <select>. That is a problem,
>> since one has to change the HTML depending on whether the page overall is
>> ltr or rtl.
>>
>> Above would solve it should that what you want. I just claim that is not,
>> typically, what *I* would want.
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, WebKit's approach to text-align:start means that the
>> default text-align value for the topmost element *can not be *"start",
>> since everyone agrees that in
>>
>> another reason to go my way :-)
>>
>> Shachar
>>
>> --
>> Shachar Shemesh
>> Lingnu Open Source Consulting Ltd.http://www.lingnu.com
>>
>>
>

Received on Monday, 24 May 2010 07:38:05 UTC