ALReq Weekly Meeting, 21 March 2017: Telecon Minutes

Minutes from the meeting today available here:
https://www.w3.org/2017/03/21-alreq-minutes.html

Text snapshot follows.

-Behnam





                  ALReq Weekly Meeting, 21 March 2017

21 Mar 2017

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2017/03/21-alreq-irc

Attendees

   Present
          behnam, najib, r12a, Shervin

   Regrets
          mostafa

   Chair
          behnam

   Scribe
          Shervin

Contents

     * [3]Topics
     * [4]Summary of Action Items
     * [5]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <najib> Hi Behnam

   <behnam> hi najib

   <najib>
   [6]https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/
   actions/open

      [6] https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/open

   <najib>
   [7]https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/
   actions/89

      [7] https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/89

   <scribe> ScribeNick: Shervin

   <behnam> Here's the draft:
   [8]http://196.200.140.8/Tests/Vertical/verticalArabic.html

      [8] http://196.200.140.8/Tests/Vertical/verticalArabic.html

   Behnam: Looking at the draft for vertical Arabic which Najib
   produced.

   <behnam> [9]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/102

      [9] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/102

   Behnam: The draft is on an external link. If the link is stable
   we can add it to the issue so people can take a look at it.

   <najib> I'll put the text in Github wiki, and then get the link
   in the issue.

   najib: The draft is some use-cases with pictures for a start...
   ... In section 1.1 of the draft, I tried to separate the
   use-cases.
   ... there is also a section stub for implementation notes. For
   now it's just a short text.

   r12a: Is this draft intended to be part of AlReq? or separate
   doc?

   najib: Yes. Section 4.3, I think.

   r12a: Some suggestion; no need to talk about CSS as it's
   tech-specific and doesn't belong in ALReq...
   ... Secondly, for ALReq we need to be short and to the point.
   Third, my impression was that we're not talking about Chinese
   and Mongolian...
   ... Fourth, margin-writing the way it's represented is not
   going to be useful for any implementation.
   ... Finally, I completed my action item to write to Uyghur
   experts regarding vertical text. Haven't heard a response yet.

   Najib: There are other examples of margin writing that Khaled
   provided.
   ... Margin-writing is obviously for handwritten text. The point
   was that the direction can be both top-to-bottom and
   bottom-to-top.

   r12a: There are content which are more important than vertical
   text to the document.
   ... My recommendation is to have a short text section on this
   topic.

   behnam: Matters discussed here touched different parts of
   document layout; some can be special, historical use-cases...
   ... this can be left out of the main document ...
   ... On the other hand, the book titles, I don't think that it's
   anything special like any other language; you have a narrow box
   and put the text in there...
   ... On a lower priority, we can get into the topic of vertical
   text (upward or downward).

   r12a: I'd welcome some information on upward text if it comes
   along.
   ... The other interest is the behaviour of vertical text in
   table cells.

   behnam: Table issue is a good example and we have a section to
   get to it, I believe. We can address the topic there.
   ... It's going to be a big challenge to put all the
   vertical-related info in one section.

   r12a: There is a question at hand is the correctness of CSS
   implementation;
   ... If it's good to keep it and if there are issues to fix.
   ... That's a relevant question for ALReq.

   najib: I agree with Behnam that there are other places in the
   doc to talk about vertical text; e.g. section abou tables, etc.
   ... There is also the issue of mixing RTL and LTR scripts in
   vertical table cells.
   ... We may have something to discuss here.

   r12a: At this stage, we don't have to worry too long where to
   put the text.
   ... One paragraph and two pictures might be a good start. If
   necessary we can expand to more.

   Shervin: Few points: 1. It's a special cases section, we need
   to keep it short; 2. margin-writing per se is not of interest
   for us in this topic. It should be seen as a historical
   precedence of Arabic written vertically; 3. I believe that the
   theater sign with stand-alone letters and vertical positioning
   doesn't belong here because it's a copy of a western tradition
   of marquee signs.

   behnam: What's the issue or question for CSS vertical text?

   r12a: Some of the features are at risk for implementation...
   ... There is also a question that originally came from this
   group regarding text running upwards or downwards.

   behnam: The drafting needs to focus on collecting evidence.

   r12a: The conclusion could be as simple as "Arabic runs upwards
   or downwards in these situations, etc."
   ... This could be written very briefly and put in the document.

   behnam: Two main topic; vertical upright (mixed with CJK) and
   upward/downward.

   r12a: Yes. We should avoid technology terms discussing these.

   najib: Let's continue the discussion in the issue to see if we
   agree where to put this.

   Shervin: Could we just write what we already know in few lines
   for now?

   najib: We could have one or two paragraphs to summarize what we
   know. Then we can always revisit.

   +1

   <behnam> close ACTION-89

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-89.

   behnam: ACTION-88 is about Uyghur....

   <behnam> close ACTION-88

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-88.

   r12a: Could be closed. No response yet. I will forward if I get
   any.

   <behnam> [10]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/projects/1

     [10] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/projects/1

   <behnam> [11]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/49

     [11] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/49

   <behnam> present?

   Shervin: Recommend to close Issue 49; there is a merge by
   Mostafa with the fixes and fixes reported to CLDR is due for
   CLDR 31 release...
   ... This means that we get these changes next time that we
   update our character tables.

   behnam: Issue number 9 and issue 101...

   <behnam> [12]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/9

     [12] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/9

   najib: Issue 9 could be closed.

   <behnam> [13]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/101

     [13] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/101

   <behnam> [14]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/97

     [14] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/97

   behnam: issue 101 could remain open until the text is merge
   into the doc.
   ... Should we keep Unicode citations in a different section?

   <behnam> [15]https://w3c.github.io/alreq/#h_joining

     [15] https://w3c.github.io/alreq/#h_joining

   r12a: I usually avoid the usual W3C of citation. I usually
   prefer to link directly from the document. It's true that with
   Unicode spec there are updates.
   ... but there are links for latest version.
   ... I would personally like to keep the references in the text.

   <behnam> [16]http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/

     [16] http://www.unicode.org/versions/latest/

   r12a: In future we can move those in a separate section.
   ... I'd say to leave it as is and just use the "latest" version
   URL.
   ... A link to have a link to Unicode from a reference and
   citation section.

   <r12a> Unicode Standard Annex #9, Unicode Bidirectional
   Algorithm [UBA]

   <behnam> Created [17]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/103 to
   create a new appendix for external references

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/103

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]