[minutes] Arabic layout task force telecon 2016-11-22

https://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html




text version follows:


Arabic layout task force telecon

22 Nov 2016

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Shervin, najib, r12a

    Regrets
    Chair
           Shervin

    Scribe
           r12a, Shervin

Contents

      * [3]Topics
      * [4]Summary of Action Items
      * [5]Summary of Resolutions
      __________________________________________________________

    <scribe> ScribeNick: Shervin

    <r12a>
    [6]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016
    OctDec/0022.html

       [6] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016OctDec/0022.html

    <r12a>
    [7]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016
    OctDec/0023.html

       [7] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016OctDec/0023.html

    <najib>
    [8]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/wiki/Arabic-numerals-%28Draft%2
    9

       [8] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/wiki/Arabic-numerals-(Draft)

    <r12a>
    [9]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016
    OctDec/0018.html

       [9] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016OctDec/0018.html

    <najib> [10]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues/2

      [10] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues/2

    Shervin: Starting from Najib draft on numeral...

    <r12a> "even though some fonts may not distinguish between the
    changing glyph"

    <r12a> shervin: shouldn't call this out, since it's just a
    broken font

    <r12a> ... all persian fonts have both sets of numbers

    <r12a> r12a: "western" should be "european" to conform to
    Unicode terminology and that chosen by us way back

    <r12a> hebrew: 1 + 1 = 2

    <r12a> arabic: 2 = 1 + 1

    <r12a> arabic: items 12 - 10

    <r12a> he: items 10 - 12

    <r12a> shervin: use 'north-west Africa' rather than 'Magreb',
    since the sphere we're talking about is wider

    <r12a> ... wrt percent sign, i think if arabic-indic are used
    percent sign is 066A

    <r12a> ... and you shouldn't mix with 0025

    <r12a> ... we need to look at authoritative sources to
    determine which is the 'right' way to do things here

    <r12a> ... should there be spaces? should the percent sign
    appear on either side ?

    <r12a> najib: i looked at bank reports and official government
    law books from Morocco

    <r12a> shervin: be careful, since some reports are generated by
    software - textbooks from an established publisher or
    schoolbooks are a much better measure

    <r12a> ... since people creating that text ensure that it is
    correct

    <r12a> najib: i'm documenting what i see, rather than what's
    correct

    <r12a> shervin: ... what's in use is not necessarily correct -
    first we need to look at notable sources

    <r12a> ... we can always call it out that common people do
    things differently

    <r12a> shervin: why no mention of arabic thousands separator

    [11]http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=%D9%AB&B1=S
    how

      [11] http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=٫&B1=Show

    [12]http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=066C

      [12] http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=066C

    <r12a> shervin: or the arabic decimal separator

    <r12a> shervin: it's a good start - it points to areas of
    contention - some things need to be shortened - eg. if you use
    the correct thousands separator it solves confusion

    <r12a> ... thanks for the effort

    <r12a> najib: please comment on the wiki, and add
    suggestions/corrections

    <r12a> ... too early for PR, stay with wiki for now

    [13]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/201
    6OctDec/0022.html

      [13] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016OctDec/0022.html

    r12a: Three issue; 1. Underline thickness, 2. Skipping ink when
    it runs into descender, 3. How determine the position of the
    underline relative to the character

    <najib> [14]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86

      [14] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86

    r12a: 4. What happens with underline with mixed-script text?

    <r12a> shervin: first impression is that whenever underline
    happens (mostly in manuscripts, which use underline as wanted)
    there's always a separation between the lowest descender and
    the line

    <r12a> ... unless space was a premium - ie no skip needed

    <r12a> ... i think leaving to the font may be a good idea

    <r12a> ... i can provide examples

    <r12a> ... historical use case of underline is very very
    limited

    <r12a> ACTION: Shervin to provide some historical examples for
    underline [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action01]

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-71 - Provide some historical examples
    for underline [on Shervin Afshar - due 2016-11-29].

    <r12a> najib: i think underline is a western concept

    <r12a> shervin: certainly it is, but i've seen it around in
    historical documents

    <r12a> najib: i didn't find much underlines in any official
    texts i looked at

    <r12a> [16]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86

      [16] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86

    <r12a> [17]https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/459

      [17] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/459

    <r12a> shervin: let's leave nastaliq out of this, because it
    makes things very complicated

    <r12a> r12a: look at the last example at
    [18]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-2615288
    11 and think about how that relates to baseline

      [18] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-261528811

    <r12a> shervin: Najib could you please add the names of the
    fonts here

    <r12a> ACTION: Najib to provide names of fonts at
    [19]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-2615288
    11 [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action02]

      [19] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-261528811
      [20] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-72 - Provide names of fonts at
    [21]https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-2615288
    11 [on Najib Tounsi - due 2016-11-29].

      [21] https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-261528811

    <scribe> ACTION: Shervin Test other fonts for the underline
    [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action03]

      [22] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-73 - Test other fonts for the
    underline [on Shervin Afshar - due 2016-11-29].

    [23]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/201
    6OctDec/0023.html

      [23] 
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-alreq-admin/2016OctDec/0023.html

    [24]http://w3c.github.io/typography/checklist

      [24] http://w3c.github.io/typography/checklist

    <r12a>
    [25]http://w3c.github.io/typography/checklist#text_decoration

      [25] http://w3c.github.io/typography/checklist#text_decoration

    <r12a>
    [26]http://w3c.github.io/typography/index#text_decoration

      [26] http://w3c.github.io/typography/index#text_decoration

    [27]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/137j59fPt1nkl0h6O72S
    R50SX3MHk0lWzmqcEaAmo1zM/edit#gid=0

      [27] 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/137j59fPt1nkl0h6O72SR50SX3MHk0lWzmqcEaAmo1zM/edit#gid=0

    [28]http://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jep/3336451.0013.105?view=text;
    rgn=main

      [28] 
http://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jep/3336451.0013.105?view=text;rgn=main

    <r12a> Justify Just or Just Justify link is now protected

    [29]http://dx.doi.org/10.3998/3336451.0013.105

      [29] http://dx.doi.org/10.3998/3336451.0013.105

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Najib to provide names of fonts at
    https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-261528811
    [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Shervin Test other fonts for the underline
    [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Shervin to provide some historical examples for
    underline [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action01]

      [30] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action02
      [31] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action03
      [32] http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-alreq-minutes.html#action01

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]

Received on Wednesday, 23 November 2016 10:46:51 UTC