W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > May 2015

Re: Making ARIA and native HTML play better together

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 11:40:27 +0100
Message-ID: <CA+ri+VmJhst5HYFoeozBeQMGK0i52aYP25YTzOCJOWj0EoYGSA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Suzanne Taylor <suzanne.taylor@pearson.com>
Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, Alice Boxhall <aboxhall@google.com>, Chaals from Yandex <chaals@yandex-team.ru>, Léonie Watson <lwatson@paciellogroup.com>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
On 7 May 2015 at 17:35, Suzanne Taylor <suzanne.taylor@pearson.com> wrote:

> I like the idea in the sense that if someone has a div as a button, you
> could just say to add the role and the problem is solved.
>
> But, I thought the line between native HTML semantics and WAI-ARIA was
> that native HTML semantics had the advantage of these automatic features
> and the WAI-ARIA was to be used when you wanted to create your own custom
> behavior. If WAI-ARIA takes on a lot of built in behavior, a few questions:
>

 I think creating a custom behaviour for roles with standardized behaviour
undermines the utility of using ARIA in the first place.

if you have a look at the ARIA design patterns they are all based on what
is the expected behaviour of the type of widget. That is why some native
HTML elements have default implict ARIA semantics (i.e. they represent the
same UI).

If you have a custom button it should act like a HTML <button>.This article
may be helpful
http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/09/web-components-punch-list/

That is not to say you cannot extend the behaviour of a custom button just
as you can a native button by adding events.

> ·         How far does it go? What about role=”dialog” – does that
> automatically add the focus behaviors?
>
Would needto be explored.


> ·         How do developers memorize which roles have automatic effects –
> right now, it is JUST info for AT and there’s a fairly clear line of
> responsibility
>
A reference specification such as
http://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/#document-conformance-requirements-for-use-of-aria-attributes-in-html
provides a clear list of which HTML elements have default ARIA semantics.


> ·         What happens when, for whatever reason, the developer doesn’t
> want the automatic effects? Do they go outside WAI-ARIA,
>
The meaning and behaviours associated with particular roles.states and
properies are what provide their utility, I don't see what use there is in
having a role=button on a custom control but not having its standard
interaction implemented.


> just like they have in the past gone outside native HTML?
>
what developers have done is recreate native UI and use ARIA to fill in
gaps roles/states/properties.


> What if I’m using role=”checkbox” because this checkbox has a bunch of
> states and I want clicking the label to show a help dialog box, not check
> the box.
>
by its nature a checkbox has states checked/unchecked/mixed. Thats why
role=checkbox has a required property of aria-checked
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#checkbox




--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
Received on Friday, 8 May 2015 10:41:34 UTC

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