Re: indicating subtitles using small

Ok, if its stylistic only why keep it?

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Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>


On 20 May 2013 17:56, Adrian Roselli <Roselli@algonquinstudios.com> wrote:

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> The spec example of disclaimer text does not mean the text is any less
> important. If anything, that text is even more important because of its
> legal implications.****
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> The purpose of <small> is to make it visually smaller. Since I don’t
> believe it maps to a non-visual medium in any way (does a screen reader do
> something different with it?), <small> to me is strictly stylistic.****
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> So, no, I don’t think it semantically de-emphasizes text in any way nor
> should it.****
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> As a visual reader/author, I can understand why it **feels** like it
> should de-emphasize, but unless that’s how it’s truly being used, and can
> map to a non-visual medium, I don’t think it fits.****
>
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> *From:* Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, May 20, 2013 12:42 PM
> *To:* Ian Devlin
> *Cc:* public-html@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: indicating subtitles using small****
>
> ** **
>
> hi Ian also also think that the de-emphasis associated with using small
> while not explicitly stated, is implied****
>
> the spec says:****
>
> The small element does not "de-emphasize" or lower the importance of text
> emphasized by the em element or marked as important with the strong
> element. To mark text as not emphasized or important, simply do not mark it
> up with the em or strong elements respectively.****
>
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> which seems odd to state unless it de-emphasises when used in other
> circumstances.
>
>  ****
>
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> ****
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF****
>
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>****
>
> ** **
>
> On 20 May 2013 17:03, Ian Devlin <ian@iandevlin.com> wrote:****
>
>
> Then I guess it depends on what "de-emphasize" means. Visually? It's not
> clear.****
>
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> On 20 May 2013 17:28, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:****
>
> Hi Ian, ****
>
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> In the cases cited I think that's the very reason  why it has been used,
> to make it smaller visually and thus de-emphasize it.****
>
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>
> Regards****
>
> Stevef****
>
>
> On 20 May 2013, at 16:17, Ian Devlin <ian@iandevlin.com> wrote:****
>
>  Well the specification currently contains a note that says: "Small print
> typically features disclaimers, caveats, legal restrictions, or copyrights.
> Small print is also sometimes used for attribution, or for satisfying
> licensing requirements."
>
> Such information is important, but using <small> in these cases would
> de-emphasize it, which probably isn't a good thing.
>
> ****
>
> On 20 May 2013 16:30, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:****
>
> OK so there has been continuing discussion on the issue of using <small>
> in the comments of post about headings and subtitles[1]****
>
> and mallory[3] pointed out that according to bootstrap [2]:
>
> "For de-emphasizing inline or blocks of text, use the small tag."****
>
> ** **
>
> While I don't see a case for defining the <small> element as explicitly
> indicating a subtitle I am partial to the idea of <small> de-emphasizing
> text****
>
> This is deemed more important than <small>this</small>, by the author.****
>
> thoughts?****
>
>
> [1] http://html5doctor.com/howto-subheadings/
> [2] http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/base-css.html
> [3] https://twitter.com/stommepoes/status/333196283294658560****
>
>
> ****
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF****
>
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>****
>
> ** **
>
> On 9 April 2013 07:33, Angie Radtke <a.radtke@derauftritt.de> wrote:****
>
> Am 08.04.2013 23:30, schrieb Åke Järvklo:****
>
> ** **
>
> Small elements inside headings seems fine to me. I never considered this a
> problem until the events leading up to tweets about boycotting Bootstrap
> over this issue started the other day.****
>
> ** **
>
> I think nobody wants  to boycott bootstrap.
> It is only a CSS-Framework. If bootstrap-users (devs)  will use small
> inside the headlines it is their descion.
> The only problem is that it is an example  in the bootstrap docs. So
> people with less knowledge will think that this is the right way.
> It is not a big deal for the bootstrap-guys to add a class like "subtitle"
> to the css-files.
> The decision to use small for subtitles comes out of missing alternatives.
>
> I wasn't very lucky that Joomla! has choosen bootstrap, because it has
> more issues. But now I have to deal with it and I hope we can help the guys
> to make it better.****
>
>
>
> Bye Angie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> www.der-auftritt.de  Büro für Kommunikation
> Angie Radtke
> Witterschlicker Allee 52
> 53125 Bonn
>
> Fon: 0228 / 642 04 67
>
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>
> ****
>
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