Re: revisiting <hgroup> in HTML

Hi Steve,

If vendors have not implemented hgroup as specced yet, there ought to 
be window for redefining rather than obsoleting. If the alternatives do 
not possess any more potential than <hgroup>, then redefining seems 
better than obsoleting.

Jirka mentioned role="subheading". And it seems to me that that thought 
can work together with <hgroup>:

<hgroup>
 <h1>The reality dysfunction</h1>
 <h2 role="subheading" >Space is not the only void</h2>
</hgroup>

The role="subgroup" could happen automagically, in line with what the 
spec says about the rank of the hn elements of a hgroup, so that 
authors don’t have to add the role attribute. I believe even the 
<subline> option would need some sort of ARIA role in order to have any 
benefits. Or else, it would be as much of an antipattern as <hgroup> 
is. 

One could also make it an authoring error if hgroup only contains two 
levels of same rank - it seemed like you said that the spec requires 
the two such elements to be handled as one element:

<hgroup>
 <h1>The reality dysfunction</h1>
 <h1>Space is not the only void</h1><!--Authoring error-->
</hgroup>
 
With regard to what Heydon said about <subline>, then it seems to me as 
problematic that <subline> would allow you to do this:

         <h1>The reality dysfunction</h1>
         <p>Some extra text goes here</p>
<subline><h2>Space is not the only void</h2></subline>
         <p>Now, what is that subline to this paragraph?</p>

With <hgroup>, this option/problem is avoided. 

One advantage of the <subline> proposal is that it permits authors to 
use a p-element, instead of a hn-element, as its content. That way 
authors can add it, without overloading users with partly meaningless 
semantics. Instead, when <subline> is supported, the subline adds 
useful new information. But even this could be achieved by <hgroup>, if 
we allowed it to take the <p> element.

Leif Halvard Silli

Steve Faulkner, Wed, 6 Mar 2013 15:05:59 +0000:
> hi Heydon,
> 
> right, the name of the element is the least of our problems :-)
> 
> getting implementer buy in is the key, but hey if <hgroup> got implemented
> anything is possible...
> 
> regards
> Steve
> 
> On 6 March 2013 15:00, Heydon Pickering wrote:
> 
>> I much prefer &lt;subline&gt; to the hgroup pattern, Steve.
>> 
>> However, I think "sub" is unecessarily restrictive, implying it should
>> only ever be "under" something (a heading?)
>> 
>> I'd like an element that lets me define a slogan / strapline / mission
>> statement which is not bound so much to context.
>> 
>> Something like &lt;figure&gt;, I guess, but more semantically specific. A
>> visual equivalent of meta description might be
>> a good model.
>> 
>> ?
>> 
>> 
>>

Received on Wednesday, 6 March 2013 16:32:20 UTC