- From: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
- Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 14:54:12 +1000
- To: Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com>
- Cc: public-html <public-html@w3.org>
On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 1:50 AM, Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com> wrote: > Hi Silvia, > > I like the idea of making the HTML cue interface independent from the > underlying serialization format, and move discussions on the latter to > the TTWG, as suggested by others. So you agree that this group should rename TextTrackCue to AbstractCue (or just Cue) and TextTrackCueList to CueList? > In fact, along the same lines, I would move paragraphs [a] and [b] > (see below) of Section 4.8.9 to the WebVTT specification. I think this > would remove the last normative provisions tied to a specific > serialization format. You may be looking at HTML5.0. HTML5.1 doesn't contain these any more. I would indeed suggest that we adjust HTML5.0 to contain the same text as HTML5.1 for tracks. > Hope it makes sense. Indeed. Thanks, Silvia. > Best, > > -- Pierre > > [a] If the element's track URL identifies a WebVTT resource, and the > element's kind attribute is not in the metadata state, then the WebVTT > file must be a WebVTT file using cue text. [WEBVTT] > > [b] Furthermore, if the element's track URL identifies a WebVTT > resource, and the element's kind attribute is in the chapters state, > then the WebVTT file must be both a WebVTT file using chapter title > text and a WebVTT file using only nested cues. [WEBVTT] > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Silvia Pfeiffer > <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> The model in which we have looked at text tracks (<track> element of >> media elements) thus far has some issues that I would like to point >> out in this email and I would like to suggest a new way to look at >> tracks. This will result in changes to the HTML and WebVTT specs and >> has an influence on others specifying text track cue formats, so I am >> sharing this information widely. >> >> Current situation >> ============= >> Text tracks provide lists of timed cues for media elements, i.e. they >> have a start time, an end time, and some content that is to be >> interpreted in sync with the media element's timeline. >> >> WebVTT is the file format that we chose to define as a serialisation >> for the cues (just like audio files serialize audio samples/frames and >> video files serialize video frames). >> >> The means in which we currently parse WebVTT files into JS objects has >> us create objects of type WebVTTCue. These objects contain information >> about any kind of cue that could be included in a WebVTT file - >> captions, subtitles, descriptions, chapters, metadata and whatnot. >> >> The WebVTTCue object looks like this: >> >> enum AutoKeyword { "auto" }; >> [Constructor(double startTime, double endTime, DOMString text)] >> interface WebVTTCue : TextTrackCue { >> attribute DOMString vertical; >> attribute boolean snapToLines; >> attribute (long or AutoKeyword) line; >> attribute long position; >> attribute long size; >> attribute DOMString align; >> attribute DOMString text; >> DocumentFragment getCueAsHTML(); >> }; >> >> There are attributes in the WebVTTCue object that relate only to cues >> of kind captions and subtitles (vertical, snapToLines etc). For cues >> of other kinds, the only relevant attribute right now is the text >> attribute. >> >> This works for now, because cues of kind descriptions and chapters are >> only regarded as plain text, and the structure of the content of cues >> of kind metadata is not parsed by the browser. So, for cues of kind >> descriptions, chapters and metadata, that .text attribute is >> sufficient. >> >> >> The consequence >> =============== >> As we continue to evolve the functionality of text tracks, we will >> introduce more complex other structured content into cues and we will >> want browsers to parse and interpret them. >> >> For example, I expect that once we have support for speech synthesis >> in browsers [1], cues of kind descriptions will be voiced by speech >> synthesis, and eventually we want to influence that speech synthesis >> with markup (possibly a subpart of SSML [2] or some other simpler >> markup that influences prosody). >> >> Since we have set ourselves up for parsing all cue content that comes >> out of WebVTT files into WebVTTCue objects, we now have to expand the >> WebVTTCue object with attributes for speech synthesis, e.g. I can >> imagine cue settings for descriptions to contain a field called >> "channelMask" to contain which audio channels a particular cue should >> be rendered into with values being center, left, right. >> >> Another example is that eventually somebody may want to introduce >> ThumbnailCues that contain data URLs for images and may have a >> "transparency" cue setting. Or somebody wants to formalize >> MidrollAdCues that contain data URLs for short video ads and may have >> a "skippableAfterSecs" cue setting. >> >> All of these new cue settings would end up as new attributes on the >> WebVTTCue object. This is a dangerous design path that we have taken. >> >> [1] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/speech-api/raw-file/tip/speechapi.html#tts-section >> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/speech-synthesis/#S3.2 >> >> >> Problem analysis >> ================ >> What we have done by restricting ourselves to a single WebVTTCue >> object to represent all types of cues that come from a WebVTT file is >> to ignore that WebVTT is just a serialisation format for cues, but >> that cues are the ones that provide the different types of timed >> content to the browser. The browser should not have to care about the >> serialisation format. But it should care about the different types of >> content that a track cue could contain. >> >> For example, it is possible that a WebVTT caption cue (one with all >> the markup and cue settings) can be provided to the browser through a >> WebM file or through a MPEG file or in fact (gasp!) through a TTML >> file. Such a cue should always end up in a WebVTTCue object (will need >> a better name) and not in an object that is specific to the >> serialisation format. >> >> What we have done with WebVTT is actually two-fold: >> 1. we have created a file format that serializes arbitrary content >> that is time-synchronized with a media element. >> 2. and we have created a simple caption/subtitle cue format. >> >> That both are called "WebVTT" is the cause of a lot of confusion and >> not a good design approach. >> >> >> The solution >> =========== >> We thus need to distinguish between cue formats in the browser and not >> between serialisation formats (we don't distinguish between different >> image formats or audio formats in the browser either - we just handle >> audio samples or image pixels). >> >> Once a WebVTT file is parsed into a list of cues, the browser should >> not have to care any more that the list of cues came from a WebVTT >> file or anywhere else. It's a list of cues with a certain type of >> content that has a parsing and a rendering algorithm attached. >> >> >> Spec consequences >> ================== >> What needs to change in the specs to deal with this different approach >> to text tracks is not hard to deduct. >> >> >> Firstly, there are consequences on the WebVTT spec. >> >> I suggest we rename WebVTTCue [1] to VTTCaptionCue and allow such cues >> only on tracks of kind={caption, subtitle}. >> Also, we separate out the WebVTT serialisation format syntax >> specification from the cue syntax specification [2] and introduce >> separate parsers [3] for the different cue syntax formats. >> The rendering section [4] has already started distinguishing between >> cue rendering for chapters and for captions/subtitles. This will >> easily fit with the now separated cue syntax formats. >> >> We will then introduce a ChapterCue which adds a .text attribute and a >> constructor onto AbstractCue for cues (in WebVTT or from elsewhere) >> that are interpreted as chapters and have their own rendering >> algorithm. >> Similarly, we introduce a DescriptionCue which adds a .text attribute >> and a constructor onto AbstractCue and we define a rendering algorithm >> that makes use of the new speech synthesis API [5]. >> Similarly, we introduce a MetadataCue which adds a .content attribute >> and a constructor onto AbstractCue with no rendering algorithm. >> I think these new cue objects would even make more sense being defined >> in HTML including their rendering algorithms rather than in the WebVTT >> spec, because they are generic and we don't want chapters to be >> rendered differently just because they have originated from a >> different serialisation format. >> >> [1] http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#webvtt-api >> [2] http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#syntax >> [3] http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#parsing >> [4] http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#rendering >> [5] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/speech-api/raw-file/tip/speechapi.html#tts-section >> >> >> >> Secondly, there are consequences for the TextTrackCue object hierarchy >> in the HTML spec. >> >> I suggest we rename TextTrackCue [6] to AbstractCue (or just Cue). It >> is simply the abstract result of parsing a serialisation of cues (e.g. >> a WebVTT file) into its individual cues. >> >> Similarly TextTrackCueList [7] should be renamed to CueList and should >> be a cue list of only one particular type of cue. Thus, the parsing >> and rendering algorithm in use for all cues in a CueList is fixed. >> Also, a CueList of e.g. ChapterCues should only be allowed to be >> attached to a track of kind=chapters, etc. >> >> [6] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/single-page.html#texttrackcue >> [7] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/single-page.html#texttrackcuelist >> >> Doing this will make WebVTT and the TextTrack API extensible for new >> cue formats, such as cues in SSML format, or ThumbnailCues, or >> MidrollAdCues or whatnot else we may see necessary in the future. >> >> This may look like a lot of changes, but it's really just some >> renaming and an introduction of a small number of semantically clean >> new objects. I'm happy to prepare the patches for the WebVTT and >> HTML5.1 specs if this is agreeable. >> >> Feedback welcome. >> >> Regards, >> Silvia. >>
Received on Friday, 14 June 2013 04:54:59 UTC