Re: proposal to explicitly forbid <small> use as subheadings

forwarding this comment on the small discussion from alohci [1]

Thanks for bring that to my attention. I think it was reasonably well known
> that Hixie wasn't a fan of using the small element for subheadings, but
> given that he would have us use "hgroup", I don't see that it brings us any
> further forward. I note that he offers no rationale for banning small other
> that it isn't hgroup. Hixie is brilliant at technical matters, but there
> mostly aren't any with a new element for subtitles except how to bind them
> to following headings. What you have there is one vote against using the
> small element.
> I would advise against ruling in or out of any proposal at this stage
> unless it is technically unworkable, so I suggest that it is not helpful
> for the "must not" requirement for small be adopted into W3c HTML5 at this
> time.
> What's most useful, is a solution for subtitles that web authors can get
> right almost by accident. That's what makes "subline" attractive. An
> inexperienced web author can see that there's a "subline" element, guess
> what it's for, use it without ever looking at a spec, and in the majority
> of cases it'll be right. Given that the "small" approach seems to have
> gained something of a cow path, there's some reason to favour that too. The
> guess-correctly requirement also encapsulates everything that was wrong
> with hgroup, which otherwise would have been a fine solution.
> For what it is worth, I think you've taken on a near impossible job. Lots
> of people have strong and conflicting opinions, and the chances of
> satisfying everyone are practically nil. Consider it a success if achieve
> something workable and you manage to satisfy *some* people. I wish you luck.
> By the way, the microdata example in the current subline proposal is
> invalid. The html element, since it has an itemtype attribute, needs an
> itemscope attribute as well.




HTML 5.1 <>

On 7 June 2013 10:05, Steve Faulkner <> wrote:

> Hi all,
> hixie made a change to the whatwg spec in regards to <small>[1]
> <p>The <code>small</code> element must not be used for subheadings; for
> that purpose, use the <code>hgroup</code> element.</p>
> As you may know changes to the whatwg spec are treated as proposals for
> inclusion in the HTML spec, many are included as they are uncontroversial.
> Some like the above are not, as the WG needs to be made aware and
> discussion needs to take place on the change.
> The second part of the sentence can be replaced with "follow the advice on
> marking up Subheadings, subtitles, alternative titles and taglines [2]"
> but we need to decide if the "must not" requirement on use of <small> is
> an appropriate conformance requirement for HTML?
> [1]
> [2]
> --
> Regards
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <>

Received on Friday, 7 June 2013 19:25:51 UTC