Re: use of placeholder as a label for an input

Hi Silvia,

I already defined in API guide how the placeholder attribute should be used
in accessible name calculation [1] (may need to be updated as I wrote the
rules a while back)


>Or is your concern more about the "labels in text boxes" approach and that
we need a recommendation to avoid that and instead recommend placeholder?

What i would like to ensure is that the HTML spec provides the best
guidance for authors on use of placeholder. What form that guidance should
take is still under discussion.

regards

Steve


[1] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#calc-iput

On 19 February 2013 07:51, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>wrote:

> Would it make sense to update
> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html with the
> recommendation to do the mapping as suggested in
> http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/placeholder-labelling.html ?
> Would that address your concern?
>
> Or is your concern more about the "labels in text boxes" approach and that
> we need a recommendation to avoid that and instead recommend placeholder?
>
> Silvia.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi all, thanks for your responses so far!
>>
>> some backstory, I was motivated to pose this question to the working
>> group as I have observed people tweeting this post:
>> Don’t Put Labels Inside Text Boxes [1]
>>
>> I also wrote about the placeholder attribute back in 2011 [2] and
>> conducted some testing (2012) [3]
>>
>> FWIW I am not married to the idea of having a MUST NOT conformance on
>> placeholder, but wanted to ellicit thoughts from others on the subject. I
>> do think that addtional informative text would be useful.
>>
>> [1]
>> http://www.uxmatters.com/mt/archives/2013/02/dont-put-labels-inside-text-boxes-unless-youre-luke-w.php
>> [2]
>> http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2011/02/html5-accessibility-chops-the-placeholder-attribute/
>> [3] http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/placeholder-labelling.html
>>
>> regards
>> SteveF
>>
>>
>> On 18 February 2013 16:54, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> The HTML spec currently states [1]:
>>>
>>> The placeholder attribute should not be used as an alternative to a
>>> label.
>>>
>>> should this be tighened up to MUST NOT?
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe there are cases where having a label associated using the
>>> label element may not be required, but can't think of any cases where the
>>> placholder attribute text suffices as the only label for an input.
>>>
>>> thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/forms.html#the-placeholder-attribute
>>> --
>>> with regards
>>>
>>> Steve Faulkner
>>>
>>> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


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