W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > April 2013

Re: Disappointing change in HTML5ís WAI-ARIA section

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 22:15:04 +0100
Message-ID: <CA+ri+VkjJiODGaNcjq5FO0y7dYzUZaqfbXj=SAw34s8Ly1FMKQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Cc: public-html <public-html@w3.org>
hi leif,

>* It feels unproductive to have a section which effectively says
>"please look somewhere else". This is dangerous for a spec to do.

HTML5 cannot contain everything for everyone sometimes it makes sense to
include content in the spec at other times not.
I would suggest that the style and content of the wai-aria section lends
itself to clearly identifying user agent and conformance checker
requirements, but falls short for authors/developers, while we have 2
published w3c document that are specifically designed for that audience.
Using ARIA in HTML in particular provides complete coverage of all HTML
elements and what aria roles, states and properties can be used while the
WAI-ARIA section of the HTML spec only covers those features that have
specific restrictions.

>* The logical consequence of the above addition, is that HTML5ís
>section on how to author the @alt attribute for img elements [2], gets
>a similar 'please look somewhere else' section. That is, practically
>speaking, that it gets a pointer to Steveís document on how to author
>@alt for images.

It is not, in fact the exact opposite is occurring please read up on the
a11y taskforce minutes.

>* Comparing 'incomplete guidance for authors' in first paragraph with
>'practical guide for developers' in first list item, it makes me wonder
>whether 'authors' and 'developers' is the same thing.

suggest this is a minor quibble.

>* I am positive about 'Using WAI-ARIA in HTML' document. But I am not
>positive if it is used to avoid tackling problems in HTML5 proper.[4]

I have already resolved the bug you cite by adding the adding conformance
requirements for role = presentation to the spec.


--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>


On 6 April 2013 21:30, Leif Halvard Silli
<xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>wrote:

> Steve has added the following to the top of the WAI-ARIA section of
> HTML5: [1]
>
> ]]
>   The primary audience for this section is user agent and conformance
> checker implementers. It contains incomplete guidance for authors.
> Authors are advised to make use of the following documents for guidance
> on using ARIA in HTML:
>  * Using WAI-ARIA in HTML - A practical guide for developers on how to
> to add accessibility information to HTML elements using the Accessible
> Rich Internet Applications specification [ARIA]. In particular the
> Recommendations Table provides a complete reference for authors as to
> which ARIA roles, states and properties are appropriate to use on each
> HTML element.
>  * WAI-ARIA 1.0 Authoring Practices - An author's guide to
> understanding and implementing Accessible Rich Internet Applications
> [[
>
> Comments:
>
> * It feels unproductive to have a section which effectively says
> "please look somewhere else". This is dangerous for a spec to do.
>
> * If is true that it is not for authors, then why is HTML5ís WAI-ARIA
> section included in the HTML5 Authors View version of the spec?[3]
>
> * The logical consequence of the above addition, is that HTML5ís
> section on how to author the @alt attribute for img elements [2], gets
> a similar 'please look somewhere else' section. That is, practically
> speaking, that it gets a pointer to Steveís document on how to author
> @alt for images.
>
> * Comparing 'incomplete guidance for authors' in first paragraph with
> 'practical guide for developers' in first list item, it makes me wonder
> whether 'authors' and 'developers' is the same thing.
>
> * I am positive about 'Using WAI-ARIA in HTML' document. But I am not
> positive if it is used to avoid tackling problems in HTML5 proper.[4]
>
> I send this message to this list, rather than opening bugs because, as
> I believe I have shown above, the above cited section has a little bit
> too many issue connected to itself.
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#wai-aria
> [2]
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#alt
> [3] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/wai-aria.html#wai-aria
> [4] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20696
> --
> leif halvard silli
Received on Saturday, 6 April 2013 21:16:14 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Thursday, 29 October 2015 10:16:32 UTC