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Re: changed advice on use of h1 headings in document outline.

From: Jason Kiss <jason@accessibleculture.org>
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 11:46:25 +1300
Message-ID: <CACFCJLRkELqg+wS487_c+BWr3RsN_WWHs31uKqtx=2Gs=BM04Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Heydon Pickering <heydon@heydonworks.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Hi Heydon,

I'm wondering if you ever followed up on this question. I have the same one.

It is not clear to me how the current outline algorithm mandates that
"headings never rise above other sections", though I don't doubt that
it very well might. The way the it is implemented at
http://qa-dev.w3.org:8888/ is quite different from how gsnedders'
outline calculator (http://gsnedders.html5.org/outliner/) or the h5o
outliner (http://code.google.com/p/h5o/) interprets it.

I, for one, would find it very helpful for someone who properly
understands the algorithm to run through it step-by-step with the
"Feathers" example to demonstrate how it creates the outline and
explain why (or why not) the H1 that is an immediate descendant of
<body> does not qualify as the heading for <body>.

Whatever the correct interpretation is, this has important
consequences for how devs will mark up their pages to get a "correct"



> On 27 February 2013 08:36, Heydon Pickering <heydon@heydonworks.com> wrote:
>> Okay, I'll try to fit that in.
>> But, before I proceed, I've found a potential bug / inaccuracy in the
>> current advise...
>> I wonder if I could have this confirmed first because it impacts on my
>> proposals.
>> Under Sample Outlines
>> (http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#sample-outlines),
>> relating to the "Feathers" example, it states that "headings never
>> rise above other sections". The example given is this:
>> &lt;!DOCTYPE HTML&gt;
>> &lt;title&gt;Feathers on The Site of Encyclopedic Knowledge&lt;/title&gt;
>> &lt;section&gt;
>>  &lt;h1&gt;A plea from our caretakers&lt;/h1&gt;
>>  &lt;p&gt;Please, we beg of you, send help! We're stuck in the server
>> room!&lt;/p&gt;
>> &lt;/section&gt;
>> &lt;h1&gt;Feathers&lt;/h1&gt;
>> &lt;p&gt;Epidermal growths.&lt;/p&gt;
>> The associated outline is illustrated like this:
>>     1. (untitled page)
>>         1. A plea from our caretakers
>>     2. Feathers
>> This doesn't make sense to me. The h1 of Feathers is an immediate
>> descendant of &lt;body&gt;, surely making it body's de facto heading
>> (there are no other headings in scope). Where has <em>untitled
>> page</em> come from, then?
>> If you paste the example into gsnedders' outline calculator
>> (http://gsnedders.html5.org/outliner/) it not only attests that
>> "Feathers" is indeed the primary heading for &lt;body&gt; but it
>> helpfully lets "Feathers" rise above the subsection to demonstrate its
>> primacy, like so:
>> 1. Feathers
>>       1. A plea from our caretakers
>> Surely, gsnedders' interpretation makes the greatest sense.
>> Subsections describe importance based on depth, not order, after all.
>> The h1's primacy is dependant on its elevation in the hierachy - and
>> indeed it is unnested in both examples - but I believe &lt;body&gt; is
>> simply not "untitled". Shouldn't "Feathers" adopt the <em>untitled
>> section</em> spot...?
Received on Monday, 1 April 2013 22:46:52 UTC

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